Should the leaderboards be regularly wiped (like annually)?

invitro · Jun 10, 2015

Some folks think the leaderboards should be cleared out regularly. See this post for a "pro" argument and I think a "con" one:

http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...ssues-Requests?p=211120&viewfull=1#post211120

I'm curious what PAF'ers think.

Tarek Oberdieck · Jun 10, 2015

invitro said:
Some folks think the leaderboards should be cleared out regularly. See this post for a "pro" argument and I think a "con" one:

http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...ssues-Requests?p=211120&viewfull=1#post211120

I'm curious what PAF'ers think.

What bad idea.

I´ve spend a lot of time to get good scores. Sorry, no time to repeat this every month...

Gus · Jun 10, 2015

That would take away the whole purpose of the leaderboard - to show the high scores. There are already weekly and monthly leaderboards for anyone that wants to compare to recent scores only.

xAzatothx · Jun 10, 2015

absolutely yes.

1) real machines don't keep high scores for years
2) discourages people playing for hours and hours to rack up crazy high scores (the tables are too easy).
3) keeps things fresh
4) as tables are patched and scoring bugs removed - the leaderboards should be refreshed to reflect accordingly.
5) makes the leaderboards and challenge more accessible to new comers.

I suspect it wont happen due to players ego.

we also need greater granularity of leaderboards based on platform.

Locksley · Jun 10, 2015

As long as the scores are legit I like that they are kept.

1, Playing for hours, even with pause being used, is a skill in itself.
2. Get new board for tournament set tables! Harder setup, no extra balls. If we get those it would be allot harder getting those highscores.
3. If you ever get the chance at beating Tarek, VikingErik or Mitz e.g., then you know you have beaten there 'best' score, not the latest.
4. More options on scoring sorting.

I voted no, only a big change on a table should vipe the score

(Disclaimer - I will never get into the top 10, so have no vested interest, heh)

JPelter · Jun 10, 2015

In theory it's a great idea, but the very fact that tables are too easy as noted before in this thread makes it not practical. It'd just mean that you're not actually competing against the best scores people can put out, but some arbitrary time limit people are personally willing to put in per table per scoring "season". In my opinion it would make the leaderboards meaningless.

Don't get me wrong there's nothing I'd like more than to be able to increase some of my rankings without putting in 10+ hours on certain tables on a single game, but I don't think this is the way to fix that issue. It'd just become pretty pointless instead.

Xanija · Jun 10, 2015

Voting for an option which isn't there:

[x] I don't care

Nate · Jun 10, 2015

Tournament Difficulty and PBA difficulty, eliminate hacked scores. Maybe refresh tournament difficulty high scores annually and keep PBA scores, or perhaps add an annual overall score that the leaderboards would default to while the all time boards were still there just as weekly and monthly are now, tarek your scores are amazing and also intimidating as well as discouraging to a newcomer, so while i appreciate the scores you guys put up and feel that the all time boards should stay put, i think it should default to an annual scoreboard with the option to view all time.

and to whoever said real machines dont keep score for years your wrong because they do, its up to the operator when they get reset

EldarOfSuburbia · Jun 10, 2015

I said no before and I still say no. There are monthly and weekly scores - maybe an archive of those would be good!

But my argument stands... in other walks of life (sports in particular), stats aren't wiped periodically to give people a chance to be #1. Some stats are more down to skill and talent and a bit of luck (DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak), others more due to grinding and stamina (Ripken's consecutive games streak). In TPA the former might be Party Zone; the latter Twilight Zone.

Video games are in some circles considered a legitimate sport, so why shouldn't records be allowed to stand the test of time?

switch3flip · Jun 10, 2015

Why not eliminate scoring entirely while at it. Eternal ball save, bring it on.

Espy · Jun 10, 2015

xAzatothx said:
absolutely yes.

1) real machines don't keep high scores for years

This was to keep players interested as high scores were always achievable, so they'd be more likely to put in a quarter. The situation is a bit different with the global all-time leaderboards where the top scores are guaranteed to be unattainable. Wiping the leaderboards here isn't really equatable to wiping the top scores from a single machine, but PAPA wiping their all-time high scores records.

switch3flip · Jun 10, 2015

Even if a real machine has high scores wiped, most often the highest score; the Grand Champion score, is still saved. You have to take out the battery to reset the GC.

shutyertrap · Jun 10, 2015

I think an annual listing would be a good compromise, but I do think scores should be wiped. Especially since tables still get tweaked, bugs get dealt with, and now new flipper physics are being put in. If I was worth my salt, there are times when I could have taken advantage of a bug during beta and posted a huge score. Would that be fair? Because 2 builds later, that advantage could be eliminated but my score would still stand.

I understand guys like Tarik and vikingeric and Vpalmer not wanting the reset because it took them huge hours to post. It is for that same reason though I think scores should be periodically wiped. It is too intimidating to 99% of every other player, to the point they cease to care.

Now, if you wanna have a Grand Champion board? Like preserve the top 10 scores but wipe everything below? That way there are still the nutso scores to look up to, but the rest of the board becomes competitive again. That would be intriguing.

Fungi · Jun 10, 2015

I voted "no". Seeing a ridiculously high score on the board is discouraging yes, but me knowing that the score that I put in will be periodically erased is even more discouraging. Why would I even bother putting in the hours on a table then?

Naildriver74 · Jun 10, 2015

I agree with Fungi, to much time was put into getting those scores to have them wiped out.

vikingerik · Jun 10, 2015

shutyertrap said:
Now, if you wanna have a Grand Champion board? Like preserve the top 10 scores but wipe everything below?

Sucks to be #11, then!

Seriously, the weekly/monthly boards already serve the purpose that everybody wants. There's no need to reset anything or to make the all-time board a gimped rehash of the time-based lists. All-time means all-time.

Tann · Jun 10, 2015

xAzatothx said:
4) as tables are patched and scoring bugs removed - the leaderboards should be refreshed to reflect accordingly.

we also need greater granularity of leaderboards based on platform.

Locksley said:
2. Get new board for tournament set tables! Harder setup, no extra balls. If we get those it would be allot harder getting those highscores.
4. More options on scoring sorting.

According to Farsight, they're working on all these points.

So, in a "near future", we can expect:

- Cleaning (reset?) of some table leaderboards, because of bugs being fixed, or increased difficulty.
- A filter by platform, or at least network (PC, PSN, Android, iOS). These data are actually available and posted with each highscore and ID.
- A new difficulty setting is coming, with separate leaderboards (8 tables so far to begin with, chosen via a poll in the forum)

If this is really added in TPA, I don't really see why the leaderboards should be wiped.

So, I voted no (and I'm really far from the top 10, just a couple of top 50 and a few of top 100)

Rudy Yagov · Jun 10, 2015

Xanija said:
Voting for an option which isn't there:

[x] I don't care

Same here. My scores don't get posted to the leaderboards anyway because I refuse to make a "farsight account".

WhiteChocolate · Jun 10, 2015

Gus said:
That would take away the whole purpose of the leaderboard - to show the high scores. There are already weekly and monthly leaderboards for anyone that wants to compare to recent scores only.

hmmmm.... how about by week, month, AND then BY YEAR, THEN all-time greatest??

might be a good idea! just gets one more in-between to make it seem cool. if you're really on a hardcore campaign to improve your score, that can take months to pan/play out! (an obvious fifth rank to add would be 'daily', if even that's only suited to liven up some ADD players ;0 - although that could parlay into some 'afternoon tourney' competitive play maybe

p.s. reading onwards/downwards, syt and others have raised plenty of good points too - i suppose some similar argument could be made about playing rl competitions on 'the same table' and yet each was a different serial number, but that point is very exaggerated in virtual form... one could perhaps extend the 'daily/weekly/monthly/one year' idea to two, three/four/five years (or maybe just four), make 'five' 'all-time', and then have a slight 'out' that way to wipe older scores. more of an extended/long-term project for sure; making allowance for folks with longer-term memories lol! but after five years, maybe could start cycling them out (i presume all scores are saved with dates; couldn't and not have the current system anyways).

it's sort of the reverse of any rw sports competition; the possibilities of tweaks/tuneups/re-engineering that can affect virtual sport... very good point! and very interesting.

Fungi · Jun 10, 2015

Imagine achieving all Standard and Wizard goals, just to have them erased every month. I would immediately stop caring about clearing them ever again. I know, this happens on a regular basis for some users anyway, but I'm betting those very same users now don't care about clearing them.

Now don't go telling me scores and achievements are two different things. I know this, but the end point is the same. I'm playing a table to accomplish something. Having whatever accomplishment erased whenever FS feels like it removes any incentive whatsoever.

Should the leaderboards be regularly wiped (like annually)?

Should the leaderboards be regularly wiped (like annually)?

Yes

No

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