I don't understand my friend

Yes this is related to TPA.

I have an online friend who likes pinball but he prefers those fantasy-ish tables like Zen Pinball and Marvel Pinball. He still tries authentic pinball and such though. He did buy Williams Collection for the PS3.

Anyway, he refuses to get TPA for the following reasons:

1. The core game has few tables
2. It will have too much DLC
3. I don't like the kickstarter thing

All these reasons baffle me.

For one, the base game has 4 tables, which is exactly what the base game for Zen Pinball and Marvel Pinball had. That makes no sense to me.

Two. Zen and Marvel Pinball already has lots of DLC tables. What makes TPA any different?

Three. He thinks Farsight is being greedy and asking ppl for money to fund new tables. I told him that some real pinball tables are based on properties (movies, TV, etc) and they require a higher cost for licensing if Farsight uses them for future tables. You need licenses from the company who made the table, the guy who designed the table, the actors involved (if any), the license for the movie/TV (if any), the sound effects, etc, etc. He then pointed out that Marvel is a property too. Marvel is just one studio though, I told him, and getting a license from them would (I presume) a whole lot cheaper than the actors, SFX, movie studios, etc, especially from a company like Lucasfilm. He doesn't believe me and just thinks Farsight is greedy and he doesn't like the way they do business.

It's a shame, really. Farsight is doing a wonderful thing recreating (and preserving) all these tables in virtual format and I can't believe people would actually not want to support them. Any thoughts?

I don't worry too much about people who think that way. I know sooner or later, they'll give in and jump on the bandwagon. People like that are usually set in their ways (playing Zen's tables) and don't welcome change easily.

For a couple of years now my priorities have switched around and now I don't ask "is this worth my money?" but "is this worth my time?" (considering things like buying games, it's not that I'm rich or anything...) I'm really picky about how I spend my time, and when it comes to videogames, TPA (and PHOF) is one of the finest experiences I can have.

Your buddy just has different priorities, and as you said, he prefers the fantasy stuff like Zen. You can definitely have wider disparities in taste than your choices in videogames and while I think TPA is a terrific way to spend my money and time, your friend isn't covinced.

And really, people don't like being convinced. Either he tries TPA on his own or he doesn't.

I once knew a guy who asked me why I even bother with all these old MAME or SNES games when I could play so many "obviously" much better modern games. I told him about nice 2D graphics, about quick and hard gameplay, about the arcade spirit, but he wasn't having any of it. I still think he's dense, but oh well.

In the end, what's fun for you isn't necessarily fun for others, and if he thinks TPA isn't a good offer for him, just let it rest

People are conservative creatures of habit. Change is often scary and or unwanted and people make up arguments to why it's not for them and like to stick to the familiar. An example: Personally I love TPA but I have a healthy dose of scepticism each time I get a new table I don't understand the rules for yet. Getting to learn it is a painstaking process sometimes (RBioN anyone?) even if I know in the end it's rewarding.

And that example holds up for me all the time in other games: In MTG: Duels of the planeswalker each time I start a new deck, it's a bit of a process to get to learn it, or when I get a new level in a platformer with newer, different enemies with different behaviour it's a bit frustrating in the start. I rather stick by the deck I know that works. (Does this mean I don't like challenge? No, because 90% of the time I start my games in Hard mode, and most of my favourite games of this generation are Demon/Dark Souls, Spelunky, where dying is integral to the game...I don't even buy Meat Boy or Trials because I know I'll get too much into those and will have no time for other games/genres that I find more fun).

Maybe the same is true for your friend: he likes to stick to the familiar, what he knows and what he knows is good at (for his level of skill) and just is a bit afraid of getting overwhelmed. In his mind, he's perfectly happy playing Zen, why would he go spend money and play this unknown factor (where admittingly in the beginning you won't be as good/have as much fun as with the game you know).

You need to get better friends. You can do better than him!

I'm not surprised that there are people who prefer fantasy pinball. Real pinball tables were designed to be moneymakers for operators, so they are quick and unforgiving compared to fantasy pinball games that target casual players. The complicated rulesets of many modern tables also make them less accessible, though the good ones make the primary goals obvious (e.g., castles in Medieval Madness).

I am glad I am more open then.

But I actually was wondering if you guys also think Farsight is 'greedy' like he claims. Since this is a TPA board though I'm going to assume all of you will say 'no.'

I enjoy both Zen's fantasy pinball machines as well as the real thing and Pinball Arcade. I see them as different companies trying to make money and are in competition with each other. Zen pinball has a couple great fantasy tables and some mediocre ones. El Dorado and Sorcerers Lair are two of the best fantasy tables created in my opinion and are just as good as the very best mechanicaly converted that Farsight has emulated. With that said, I prefer playing the much more challenging Star Trek TNG machine than any fantasy game, as well as I prefer most of the Farsight emulated classic tables already released over any Zen tables. Granted I do have lots of fun playing the free Sorcerers Lair every now and then and love how the playfield has enhanced lighting effects on the IOS Ipad 3 I own. The table looks a lot prettier than Farsights.

You assume corectly. The KICKSTARTER thing is a win for anybody who likes the game , or loved the licensed Pinball Machines . I've never played STNG or TZ Pinball , but it's a no-brainer Im going to love them , Im sure your friend thinks these companies have deep pockets and are able to buy up licenses by themselves , but as a former California resident I know Far Sight has major expenses to contend with and the videogame market is both very competitive and in a major slump right now .

There are unfortunately some people who think "old" is not as cool as new , and these classic tables in his mind , can't be as fun as the weirdo Zen and marvel tables . Leave it at that , it's his loss .

Freelance said:

I am glad I am more open then.

But I actually was wondering if you guys also think Farsight is 'greedy' like he claims. Since this is a TPA board though I'm going to assume all of you will say 'no.'

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Some people think they are greedy and should be able to do the licenses by themselves with all their "success". Maybe they could in a few months time, but they can get those 2 licenses cheap *now* and get those tables made within the first year of the game being out. I rather play those 2 tables sooner rather than later. If they would have gone there in a years time, when they arent representing a game that just started with an unsure future, but rather a succesfull game with 24 tables, those licenses might be a whole lot more expensive all of a sudden and maybe even completely unviable or require a kickstarter for 100k.

Basically people are paying to ensure we get those tables. Not getting them now could mean we would *never* get them.

When FS is only asking for 55k, no, they are not being greedy. No I'm not rich, but I also know that 55 grand ain't a lot.

Sinistar said:

There are unfortunately some people who think "old" is not as cool as new , and these classic tables in his mind , can't be as fun as the weirdo Zen and marvel tables . Leave it at that , it's his loss .

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While waiting for the PC release, I'm still playing both the Williams and Gottlieb Hall of Fame collections on Wii.
Lately.. I've been playing a LOT of Big Shot and Central Park.

MUCH simpler games than the more modern ones, but great practice aiming your shots.
Big Shot is great! PLENTY of fun.

RetroDude said:

While waiting for the PC release, I'm still playing both the Williams and Gottlieb Hall of Fame collections on Wii.
Lately.. I've been playing a LOT of Big Shot and Central Park.

MUCH simpler games than the more modern ones, but great practice aiming your shots.
Big Shot is great! PLENTY of fun.

Click to expand...

So you haven't played TPA at all?! Now that takes patience! So far I've bought this for iOS, Mac, 360 and played the demos on Android, definitely the PC when it's available. Out of the bunch that's available now, the 360 controls are by far superior, but I play on iOS to get a glimpse of the new tables. For me it's kind of hard to go back to the WHOF collection, after playing with the new engine. But, could I recommend buying any of these platforms just to play TPA..?...Well if you just wanted to see the new tables and sort of play them, I'd say upgrade your phone...at least it serves more purposes.