How Is The Original Pro Pinball Still So Good!?

H

HotHamBoy

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Aug 2, 2014
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I just installed Big Race USA, Fantastic Journey and Timeshock and played them for the first time. I'm just blown away by these physics from 1997. It's crazy! These games are still really fun and hold up very well, considering their age.

I have played the Ultra Edition of Timeshock many times on my iPad but I didn't realize how close the original physics were to the new version. It's pretty impressive! I would love to see an Ultra Edition of Fantastic Journey.

Does anyone know where to get a Windows version of The Web? GoG.com has the other three but is missing that one.

Any other older PC or console pinball games that hold up that well? I find most of them do not.
 
Kolchak357

Kolchak357

Senior Pigeon
May 31, 2012
8,102
2
I have Timeshock for ios. Yeah the physics are as good as it gets for a mobile app. They obvious spent a lot of time getting it just about perfect. I have zero complaints about how it feels/plays.
 
Pinballwiz45b

Pinballwiz45b

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2012
3,678
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I'm looking for a legit copy of The Web as well.

Come on, Barnstorm... Why are you so silent all of a sudden again?
 
Jeff Strong

Jeff Strong

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Staff member
Feb 19, 2012
8,144
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How Is The Original Pro Pinball Still So Good!?
Click to expand...

I've been asking this same question for a loooong time. With each passing year, it becomes more and more mind-boggling how companies like Farsight haven't caught up to 20 year-old physics tech.
 
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skyway73

skyway73

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Jeff Strong said:
I've been asking this same question for a loooopng time. With each passing year, it becomes more and more mind-boggling how companies like Farsight haven't caught up to 20 year-old physics tech.
Click to expand...

+1

Imagine TPA with those physics, I'm sure it will happen one day...
 
H

HotHamBoy

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Jeff Strong said:
I've been asking this same question for a loooong time. With each passing year, it becomes more and more mind-boggling how companies like Farsight haven't caught up to 20 year-old physics tech.
Click to expand...

Why is that? I'm guessing there is more to it. TPA does ROM emulation and that's a huge overhead. Pro Pinball is all pre-rendered and TPA is in a 3D engine. That has to mean something...
 
Jeff Strong

Jeff Strong

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Staff member
Feb 19, 2012
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HotHamBoy said:
Why is that? I'm guessing there is more to it. TPA does ROM emulation and that's a huge overhead. Pro Pinball is all pre-rendered and TPA is in a 3D engine. That has to mean something...
Click to expand...

Good points, but do either of those affect the physics engine in general? It doesn't seem like they would. ROM emulation requires more CPU, but I mean Pro Pinball ran on Windows 95 machines, so their advanced physics engine requires very little resources. I guess the Barnstorm guys were just so far ahead of their time in that department and truly gifted. That's why I always kind of wished Farsight was able to maybe license their physics engine from the start of their PHOF endeavors instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with less than stellar results.
 
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mpad

mpad

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Jan 26, 2014
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I always thought the 3D real time vs 2D pre rendered is the main reason. Totally different approach.
But from what I know they both have a virtual environment in the background which handles the physics and is separate from the visual side. So maybe there are principals that can be transferred.
Computing power for physics alone I would also take out of the equation. But there are a lot of dependencies to the framerate and rendering which makes things complicated again.
 
Jeff Strong

Jeff Strong

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Staff member
Feb 19, 2012
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The ball in TPA still only reacts to the geometry on a flat surface though, so I wouldn't think that would limit the physics engine (if anything, it would enchnace it). The 3D environment only makes a difference graphically-speaking as far as I know.

If you look at PHOF vs. TPA current physics, they're drastically different, with PHOF being quite primitive in comparison, so it seems apparent Farsight has been slowly learning this as they go (they've even said that in interviews, starting with Mojo, or whatever that game was called). With no disrespect to Farsight, it's safe to say the Pro Pinball guys just had a better grasp on writing the physics code from the start.
 
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Fungi

Fungi

Active member
Feb 20, 2012
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My mind has been so wired to the TPA physics that I can't get nearly as far as I used to on Timeshock.
 
H

Heretic

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Jun 4, 2012
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i believe 1 of the 2 orignal dudes actually has a degree in phyics and obviously some mean assed coding chops so its a happy marriage ....remember that this also ran on a ermm what 32mhz? psone
 
rehtroboi40

rehtroboi40

New member
Oct 20, 2012
1,668
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HotHamBoy said:
I just installed Big Race USA, Fantastic Journey and Timeshock and played them for the first time. I'm just blown away by these physics from 1997. It's crazy! These games are still really fun and hold up very well, considering their age.

I have played the Ultra Edition of Timeshock many times on my iPad but I didn't realize how close the original physics were to the new version. It's pretty impressive! I would love to see an Ultra Edition of Fantastic Journey.

Does anyone know where to get a Windows version of The Web? GoG.com has the other three but is missing that one.

Any other older PC or console pinball games that hold up that well? I find most of them do not.
Click to expand...

I remember playing them on the PSOne. The later ones were released as budget games $10 and still had amazing physics at the time. They look even better on the PC (recently snagged them up on GoG), but I need controller support. It's just too much trouble to install a program that I've found doesn't work. That's why I don't do more business with them-lack of controller support.

Hopefully more is to come-Timeshock looks freakin' sweet. We do needs us some cheevos though! (Not 2k of them like Zaccaria, IMO)
 
H

Heretic

New member
Jun 4, 2012
4,125
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speculation - since the web was the first maybe the inital engine used some cluster ****ed frankstien code mix of win/dos that doesnt play nice with modern systems.

i assume you boys emulate the not legit copy? maybe it was a legal star trek rapething

in terms of iffy id suggest the web for the psx ifya wnana experience it...until a betteroption comes ultra editions are truelyworth it....same engine just shinnnnneeeyyyyyy precious
 
H

HotHamBoy

New member
Aug 2, 2014
773
0
rehtroboi40 said:
I remember playing them on the PSOne. The later ones were released as budget games $10 and still had amazing physics at the time. They look even better on the PC (recently snagged them up on GoG), but I need controller support. It's just too much trouble to install a program that I've found doesn't work. That's why I don't do more business with them-lack of controller support.

Hopefully more is to come-Timeshock looks freakin' sweet. We do needs us some cheevos though! (Not 2k of them like Zaccaria, IMO)
Click to expand...

I use JoyToKey, it's free and lightweight and works perfectly. I have a USB arcade stick I installed sidebuttons on and that's what I play all my PC pinball with. It's worth the effort!

I found that, between my modded controller and my rotating monitor, I don't really need a virtual cab. You can pick up a rotating monitor for pretty cheap and it's great for SHMUPS, Downwell and working on art, too.
 
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