Original Pinball Games and Impossible Physics

Bibidibop · Aug 29, 2012

The claim to fame for Pinball Arcade is that it is a pinball machine simulator of faithfully recreated machines, while all other pinball video games are original creations but don't capture the feel of the machines. Following that logic, with the feel of real machines having been captured, at this point, couldn't a true to life, original pinball game be created, and be as good as a machine or machine simulation?

Taken further: knowing what makes a good machine, and what makes a good simulation, wouldn't it be possible to make a physically impossible pinball game which is fun, and feels right?

Would it be worth the trouble in either case?

Brandon Debes · Aug 29, 2012

We will soon find out when Pat Lawlor attempts exactly that.

infernogott · Aug 29, 2012

timeshock is imo the closest thing to that.

DrainoBraino · Aug 29, 2012

Physically impossible, fun, and feels right? I think Zen/Marvel Pinball is close as it gets now. I know theres not too much love for Zen here, I dont know why. I think its great. As far as video pinball goes, TPA and Zen are the best things going right now.

You know why I think people are down on Zen? They only try one of the original 4 tables as a demo and dont give the physics a chance. When Zen 2 comes out in a few weeks you can demo ( i think) all of the tables.

pinbot-76 · Aug 30, 2012

As a new PS3 owner I'm definitely looking forward to ZP2. I play & appreciate PFX2, but I also play real pinball and in my opinion TPA physics comes much closer to the real thing.

Gord Lacey · Aug 30, 2012

Actually, I think people here are okay with Zen's pinball games. Many of us own them, and play them, we just prefer the simulation of real tables from FarSight.

laughing_lunatic · Aug 30, 2012

Gord Lacey said:
Actually, I think people here are okay with Zen's pinball games. Many of us own them, and play them, we just prefer the simulation of real tables from FarSight.

Exactly. It's a mood thing, for me. I can't wait to play ZP2 in 3D.

bavelb · Aug 30, 2012

Gord Lacey said:
Actually, I think people here are okay with Zen's pinball games. Many of us own them, and play them, we just prefer the simulation of real tables from FarSight.

This, I'm fine with Zen.

The physics are less realistic (some advanced moves are too easy as the ball is a bit too heavy, and pathing seems more predictable) but this is a design decision and fine for an arcade table.

I can do without animated figures flying over my tables, and some rulesets are incredibly convoluted (and not explained well), but I prefer to play Zen (or PFX2 in my case) over TPA when I play with my kids, or when I'm tired and know I shouldnt attempt a highscore run on TOTAN, RBION etc etc. I'm also a fan of the superhero theme's of late.

I kinda compare it to platformers: hardcore fans of those totally jump on Super Meatboy, but I rather go for Mario Galaxy. For pinball, it's the reverse for me

Sean DonCarlos · Aug 30, 2012

I don't care for Zen much, but unless someone says something clearly false (like claiming Zen has more realistic physics), I don't generally say much about it. It's a perfectly fine game if you enjoy it for what it is; it's just not my cup of tea, that's all.

Back on-topic: While it did say Lawlor would be freed from the constraints of finances and manufacturing issues for his new virtual-only table, I do hope he remains within the realm of the physically possible.

Brandon Debes · Aug 30, 2012

Serenseven said:
I do hope he remains within the realm of the physically possible.

I have faith in Pat Lawlor not to give us anything like this:

If he does it will destroy everything I know about the world.

Benson · Aug 30, 2012

Whisper isn't here!

laughing_lunatic · Sep 5, 2012

Brandon Debes said:
I have faith in Pat Lawlor not to give us anything like this:

Excellent table, I love Sorcerers Lair. Esp when Whisper turns up and helps out.

ClaudeHenrySmoot · Sep 6, 2012

My guess is that it would be awkward for someone like Lawlor to create a table that breaks the traditional laws of pinball physics. Guys like him have been designing games for decades - they know what works, what doesn't work, etc. I'd imagine the designers would have to "turn off" their logic side in order to crank out such a table.

I'd expect such a machine to be still true to physics, but include more expensive toys and mechanisms that typically get costed out of the games we are familiar with. My 2 cents...

Pinballfan69 · Sep 6, 2012

bavelb said:
This, I'm fine with Zen.

The physics are less realistic (some advanced moves are too easy as the ball is a bit too heavy, and pathing seems more predictable) but this is a design decision and fine for an arcade table.

I can do without animated figures flying over my tables, and some rulesets are incredibly convoluted (and not explained well), but I prefer to play Zen (or PFX2 in my case) over TPA when I play with my kids, or when I'm tired and know I shouldnt attempt a highscore run on TOTAN, RBION etc etc. I'm also a fan of the superhero theme's of late.

I kinda compare it to platformers: hardcore fans of those totally jump on Super Meatboy, but I rather go for Mario Galaxy. For pinball, it's the reverse for me

Agree.

I love the Zen table for their unique take on their table designs.

I love TPA only because I can have the nostalgia of playing some of my favorite pinball tables in virtual form.

I'm on the fence of TPA's Physics as on some table the balls are way too bouncy even for balls that slowly trickles down from the orbits (*cough Medieval Madness *cough) others are done rather well. I just don't remember real pinballs having no weight to the ball.

Zen's physics are decent but there is too much weight I think. I'm starting to get frustrated on the ease of trapping the ball.

I just want a happy medium somewhere i between TPA and Zen's

mmmagnetic · Sep 6, 2012

Pat Lawlor has confirmed that he will design a table that will entirely be designed like a real machine - and that might one day even be built, if the funding and interest is there.

As for Zen, I like some of their designs, but I just can't deal with the physics at all - it isn't just the ball weight itself, I find aiming really hard for some reason as well. I got Paranormal the other day and quite enjoyed it, though.

Kolchak357 · Sep 7, 2012

mmmagnetic said:
As for Zen, I like some of their designs, but I just can't deal with the physics at all - it isn't just the ball weight itself, I find aiming really hard for some reason as well. I got Paranormal the other day and quite enjoyed it, though.

The paranormal table looks interesting. Is that Kolchak in the middle of the table? I must have this.

shutyertrap · Sep 9, 2012

Kolchak357 said:
The paranormal table looks interesting. Is that Kolchak in the middle of the table? I must have this.

I really don't like Paranormal. If feels like you only play the bottom half of the table as the upper half is filled with junk.

Here's what I wanna see in the 'unrealistic' category...fog! How cool would it be if for whatever reason the entire table filled with fog and your ball emitted light? You'd see a clear trail behind it, and then it'd fill in again. Once the mode was done, all the fog would get sucked away and you'd have a clean table again. Wouldn't that be kinda fun?

Jeff Strong · Sep 9, 2012

Does the ghostrider table leave fire trails/skids behind the ball? Now that would be groovy.

Metalzoic · Sep 9, 2012

Jeff Strong said:
Does the ghostrider table leave fire trails/skids behind the ball? Now that would be groovy.

There are a few tables that do things like this.

Blade the table goes dark with glowing UV balls.
Sorcerors Lair has the glowing Whisper orb in the dark.
I can't remember what Ghost Rider does, but there are several different ball effects across the tables.

I've been playing Zen 2 on the Vita solid since Tuesday. I can't believe how good it looks and how solid the programming is. Everything from menus to multiplayer to the various types of scoring are all very well done. The flipper control is great too. You can just flick the flippers a bit and it seems you can do live/drop catches and things TPA can't do.

Good stuff and highly recommend everyone at least give it a try. Pretty much all of the unlicensed tables are great.

Jeff Strong · Sep 9, 2012

Metalzoic said:
There are a few tables that do things like this.

Blade the table goes dark with glowing UV balls.
Sorcerors Lair has the glowing Whisper orb in the dark.
I can't remember what Ghost Rider does, but there are several different ball effects across the tables.

I've been playing Zen 2 on the Vita solid since Tuesday. I can't believe how good it looks and how solid the programming is. Everything from menus to multiplayer to the various types of scoring are all very well done. The flipper control is great too. You can just flick the flippers a bit and it seems you can do live/drop catches and things TPA can't do.

Good stuff and highly recommend everyone at least give it a try. Pretty much all of the unlicensed tables are great.

Yeah, I've played those other tables you mentioned...actually most of the Zen tables other than the newer marvel ones (I'm honestly not a fan of the physics, tiny flipper gap, etc. so I haven't bought any of their tables for a few months)......but I just thought it'd be kind of cool if Ghost Rider had some burning trails or something. If they're going for fantasy, might as well crank it to 11

Original Pinball Games and Impossible Physics

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