The Core Game Updates Speculation Thread

I figured I'd create a little topic to explain some of the potential updates that I have deducted from lurking here at TPAF. It might clear up some things that I think are going on, but developers cannot actually say directly (if at all), and get rid of some of the agitation that's been building up for a while

I'm not expecting a single peep of confirmation from any Farsight employee, given how confidentiality agreements work and such. As a result of this I'm quite happy to let this remain as informative bickering between forum members based on our own knowledge, research and gut instincts.

What we know:

• The Xbox 360 is the platform in which the game is primarily developed on. Thus, changes to the Xbox 360 version should theoretically be mimicked across other platforms.
• An update is required to allow new tables to function properly. This is because new games have modifiers, objects etc. which make them different to previous tables. If a new table was released without a title update, chances are that it wouldn't even start, given how some objects are crucial to how the game plays.
• So far there has been ONE update to the core game.
• It takes 4-6 weeks to authorise an update to the main game.
• There is a limited amount of updates
• The first update is free
• All future title updates cost $40k TO SUBMIT (so it could still fail the autherisation process and cost Farsight $40k)

What we can deduct from this:

• We will get progressive title updates every 3-5 months to allow for new DLC.
• As these updates will be roughly seasonal we will most likely see core gameplay updates at the same time to cut down the amount of patches needed.
• We will most likely get bug fixes as well.

Core Game Changes in Update #1

• Game updated to detect and run Table Packs 1-3
• Bug fixes
• Slight physics changes to core tables.

What is confirmed to be coming eventually:

• Ball Skins (via the Star Trek:TNG kickstarter)
• Operator Menu (Only confirmed for Kickstarter tables for now)
• New Menu Layout (has been hinted at in several threads)
• Bug fixes to previous tables.
• More tables, obviously.

So from this there is an assumption that there will be an update around November/December, there will probably be another update around February/March which would be the next 'season' for DLC and updates.

Speculative idea of how the Winter update will pan out.

• Game will be updated to detect and run 3-4 Table packs
• Bug fixes (Monster Bash etc.)
• New Menu layout will be implemented (It's rumored to be coming to the Android/iOS around then, which isn't a bad guess considering how many tables they will have by then and how hard it will be to select them)
• Game MIGHT be updated to detect and run The Twilight Zone.
• IF Twilight Zone is coupled with this update then either Operator Menu support will be included or the groundwork for Operator Menu will be implemented.

Now if this is the potential update that we're getting, it can explain why Farsight has decided to go all 'hush hush' about the updates. There is a LOT of work that needs to be done and personally I don't expect The Twilight Zone in this update, if only because it'd probably make more sense to test out the operator mode and lay the groundwork for the operator mode in Star Trek:TNG. But I'd be a VERY happy camper if it does come out before Christmas.

Speculative idea of how the Spring update will pan out.

• Game will be updated to detect and run 3-4 Table packs
• Bug fixes (we know there will be one or two little gremlins in the code)
• Ball skins will be implemented.
• Game will be updated to detect and run both Kickstarter tables.
• Operator Menu support MIGHT be implemented in both Kickstarter tables.

Of course, this depends on the notion that we'll be getting the kickstarter rewards sooner rather than later, even though we could well see them in much later updates. IF Operator Menu support works the way that Farsight intends it to then we could see it across other tables too (also speculation)

But yeah, from then on it's practically anyone's guess. I'm quite interested to see what everyone's thoughts of how the updates will work, but this seems like the most logical way of working things from the information I've came across.

We also know that MS charges $40K for all additional title updates after the initial update, which seems to be one of the main reasons Farsight is going to group new table updates together, so you should probably add that to your post.

Can't believe I forgot to write that >_< That was basically the entire point for this scenario in the first place. Thanks for pointing that out Jeff!

EDIT: It's the price itself that's causing problems. I've heard some people say 20k, others 40k... and sometimes it differs between dollars and pounds. I'll stick with your price until I double check it against Microsoft policy tomorrow (it's about 2AM here now )

I personally can't see them updating without TZ. That's the table everyone wants to play, it's supposed to be finished in November, and if they update without it, there will be a lot of pissed people. They might even hold out another month to also include STTNG, which would be an excellent idea.
Of course, at 40K a pop, I can see them doing updates every 6 months, or even annually. If anyone complains, there's also the possibility they'll just say "f*** it, it's too expensive and too much trouble. We're ending 360 support."

So this only applies to Xbox 360? 'This' being the 40K. Apple, Android, and Playstation don't charge, or at least that much? I'm finding this behind the scenes stuff fascinating as it explains the goings on for other games too.

shutyertrap said:

So this only applies to Xbox 360? 'This' being the 40K. Apple, Android, and Playstation don't charge, or at least that much? I'm finding this behind the scenes stuff fascinating as it explains the goings on for other games too.

Click to expand...

Yes, MS is the only one who charges for updates. The 40K figure did not come from FS, but from the developer of another Live Arcade title. Don't forget also, MS only allows releases through publishers, and will not deal directly with the developer. I don't understand the full ramifications of this aspect, but, based on what FS said (or implied), it's a really bad thing.

It basically means , when FarSight submits a update patch , MS looks at it , and says PASS or NOT PASSED , then tells them to make it better without much clues about why it did not pass . Or they tell them in the vaguest possible way. Yeah it's a bad thing for them to do business that way.

It also means the publisher gets a cut of their profit, which sucks when the publisher isn't really "publishing" anything.

I'm really quite shocked at this. Look, I'm a Playstation die hard, and during this entire PS3 cycle, I've had to endure all the talk of how great the 360 is, how developers love it compared to PS3, etc, etc. To find out MS pulls these kinds of stunts, well, I mean they're MS but still! I would've expected it to be Sony pulling these shenanigans. Maybe if FS put in some Kinect interaction they'd get some brownie points!

So if FS have any sense they wont be submitting an update to MS until Twlight Zone is ready to go....otherwise 360 owners would be waiting until feb/march time for it you can imagine the facebook posts if that was to happen!

IF it goes like I think it will then the November/December update will be worth the wait by giving us so many tables at once, so many new features AND lay the groundwork for some great features in the future.

Personally I'd be happy with packs 4-7, a new menu system and bugfixes for previous tables. Twilight Zone would just be the icing on the cake really, if that comes out then we have a table that could keep people busy for 3-4 months... then again, we've said things like that about Monster Bash, Circus Voltaire, Bride of PIN*BOT etc.

If Twilight Zone comes out then there's probably no chance of operator support by then, but if THAT also comes out then we've got the motherload of updates. If Twilight Zone isn't enough to keep people busy then being able to customise bits of it definitely will... which makes me think that operator menu support might come later as a way to boost interest in a table when it's nearing the end of it's surge in popularity.

I guess it all depends on whether Farsight can keep a table for that long to work on operator menu support... because I thought they had to sell on old tables once they were done in order to pay for other things. If they can't keep a table for very long then then we'll probably see it in the next update (Spring) instead because that'd be far too much data and code to work out in time for the seasonal release.

Rudy said:

if that comes out then we have a table that could keep people busy for 3-4 months... then again, we've said things like that about Monster Bash, Circus Voltaire, Bride of PIN*BOT etc.

Click to expand...

I guess we're all guilty of want more and more tables when in fact the first batch of tables would really still keep us occupied

Exactly

After the long wait, four table packs doesn't seem like much in practise, when in reality it's NEARLY DOUBLE the amount of tables we currently have (moving us from 10 to 18 tables), IF Twilight Zone also comes out in the update (unlikely) we'll move from 10 tables to 19 tables!!!

The big fear is that Farsight will start to space out their updates even moreso, yet if Farsight does decide to go bi-yearly after the Spring patch, that's still 12 tables (plus potential kickstarter tables) per update.

I think the big problem has been feeling the pinch of Android/iOS getting tables before us, yet if we get a steady release schedule (maybe even with month delays between table packs >_>) we could begin to see updates running like clockwork and a schedule consistantly 3 months behind android owners. I think we'll just have to accept that Android/iOS will get tables before us because they're much easier to release, code and patch. We'll be most likely getting more refined versions right out of the box so basically Android/iOS guys are our beta testers

Am I right in thinking it takes Farsight about 3 months to complete a table? ( not sure where I got that from? ). If that is the case would the following work? instead of announcing just the next table pack, announce the next 2 or 3 packs ( they know what they are because they have already started on them ) and get whatever code is required for these tables into a title update early, before they are finished and availble? so one update could bring the system upto date with the tables already availble on other systems and be ready for the next 2 or 3 packs? I'm guessing I am talking out of my **** here so I'll get my coat.

I think licensing problems would prevent that from happening actually... I'm sure they have plenty of non-disclosure agreements to prevent some tables being leaked early, and some tables that they've acquired but the license could change at any moment. We've already seen the problem with TAF, but what if (I know, I don't like to say this but) an actor that is heavily involved in a table suddenly dies? Suddenly it can be seen as incredibly tasteless to go ahead with something like that. When Michael Jackson died, Rock Band explicitly had to say that there was NO Michael Jackson DLC coming soon, in order to to calm the backlash brewing on forums.

There's also the possibility that Farsight COULD buy a table, take it apart and then realise that it's just not possible to emulate. Announcing it a few months in advance would be catastrophic, and you can just picture thousands of people commenting on facebook about the 'promise' made to bring X table to the platform.

And if they had to change a design mid game, it'd potentially create a scenario where a table will not physically work at all. Either it would involve continuing with the dodgy code riddled with bugs in the hope that it eventually works, or they could start afresh with this new efficient coding only for the table to not work.

em guys, they all charge for the updates, not just micro$oft...

edit: on the consoles i mean -> sony, nintendo, micro$oft

BonzoGonzo said:

em guys, they all charge for the updates, not just micro$oft...

edit: on the consoles i mean -> sony, nintendo, micro$oft

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Here is what Farsight said on Facebook:

"There are unfortunately some unique challenges with the Xbox 360 platform. First, Microsoft is the only 1st party who charges for each game patch (even if the purpose of the patch is to add additional DLC that will make money for them). That means we have no choice but to wait and submit several table packs in the same patch. Second, Microsoft refuses to have a direct relationship with XBLA developers- they insist that we go through a publisher. This makes it more difficult for us to make money on 360, but also makes it harder to have a dialog with Microsoft about anything. We understand your frustration, and we are even more frustrated than you are. We've made a large investment in licenses and development so when we can't make money on a platform by selling tables it hurts us a lot more than it hurts our customers. The 360 is one of our favorite platforms to play pinball on- it's a shame things have to be so complicated!"

Farsigh eh? Well, I don't blame them for the name change. It's gotta be frustrating dealing with some of the stuff they're goin' through.

I have abbreviated their name to FFS a few times, usually after yet another delay/ rejection

Squid said:

Farsigh eh? Well, I don't blame them for the name change. It's gotta be frustrating dealing with some of the stuff they're goin' through.

Click to expand...

Oops, it was just a typo, but that's funny