Lack of visual consistency

I know others have complained about this before, but I just had to comment on this as I'm really afraid if/when the PC version comes we'll see the same issue. Why do each set of tables that have come out look like they were rendered and lit in entirely different environments? This doesn't seem to be an issue on my Kindle Fire; but on the PS3 the look is all over the place. Some tables are somewhere in the middle ground (like Funhouse) but some are too light and some are way too over saturated and/or dark. (Black Knight). Mind you of course I think mechanical bugs should be fixed first but I hope that somewhere down the road the tables can be re-rendered so that they all have a a more consistent and natural look between them.

CmputrBlu said:

I know others have complained about this before, but I just had to comment on this as I'm really afraid if/when the PC version comes we'll see the same issue. Why do each set of tables that have come out look like they were rendered and lit in entirely different environments? This doesn't seem to be an issue on my Kindle Fire; but on the PS3 the look is all over the place. Some tables are somewhere in the middle ground (like Funhouse) but some are too light and some are way too over saturated and/or dark. (Black Knight). Mind you of course I think mechanical bugs should be fixed first but I hope that somewhere down the road the tables can be re-rendered so that they all have a a more consistent and natural look between them.

Click to expand...

I'll guess that everybody but you and me seems extremely happy with the looks of TPA. I placed various complains, comments & suggestions about lighting/texturing/lack of shadows/inconsistencies/lack of depth etc. etc., but hardly any responses, and these kind of posts are greatly ignored by FarSight employees as well. So, why do we care?

night said:

Everybody but you and me seems extremely happy with the looks of TPA. I placed various complains, comments & suggestions about lighting/texturing/lack of shadows/inconsistencies/lack of depth etc. etc., but no-one gives a rats @ss, and these kind of posts are greatly ignored by FarSight employees as well. So, what do we care?

Click to expand...

That's not true. We all give a rats @ss, including FS. The majority of PS3 owners have complaints about the lighting inconsistencies and colors being "washed out" on certain tables. There are several threads about this in this forum and the PS3 and vita forum. Here's one I just found immediately:
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/2504-Muted-colors-lighting-in-some-PS3-tables

Hopefully they get around to addressing this issue soon.

Yeah FarSight already did comment in that thread Draino posted

"I am hoping to make a run through the ps3 lighting very soon. I apologize for the inconsistency in the lighting on the ps3. Keep pointing this stuff out guys, it keeps us motivated to always improve and fix our mistakes."

So hopefully soon

I feel the same. I guess Im tired of repeating myself and I dont want to continuously keep kicking the same dead horse.

while major assest errors should be fuxed asap were getting alittle greedy i think what would we do without tpa at least offically hope one of the better vp authors dors our favourites(mine do im lucky) i see tpa as the best effort yet and as we have seen with more time blachole and mm have got some major imporment.

id suggest keep bring your issues up in context....then again i dont have real stuff to compare too

Heretic said:

while major assest errors should be fuxed asap were getting alittle greedy i think what would we do without tpa at least offically hope one of the better vp authors dors our favourites(mine do im lucky) i see tpa as the best effort yet and as we have seen with more time blachole and mm have got some major imporment.

id suggest keep bring your issues up in context....then again i dont have real stuff to compare too

Click to expand...

Now, that's the worst case of auto-correct NOT kicking in
j/k

Yeah but it's Heretic. He may have wanted to say that.

My biggest problem is the very basic hars 3D look of TPA. It just lacks love, it lacks athmosphere, it lacks depht. You see that it is done under time preasure, that they work with different teams, inconsistent. They have a set of pre-made textures that is used over and over again. I am a digital illustrator and 3D artist and always pushing myself to get the best out of my work. Dedication is something that you can see in someone's work, TPA latest table packs lacks this dedication, it's about production, the more platforms the better, but I don't care about such things. I am a buyer, I don't care they have to keep up with 2 tables a month. I want graphic quality. I want a table without bugs. I want a table without stutter problems. I want a decent menu without half a minute of scrolling before I find my table. As an artist I know there are people working in this team that are not skilled. Every graphic designer would have removed that redicioulus blue planet carpet 9 months ago in the iOS version, it conflicts with the tables artwork. Every graphic designer would have gone though many attemps to fix the dramatic plastic texturing that is tormenting my eyes on too many tables. Perhaps it's because it's my work and life as an artist that it bugs me too much, but the ramps on Creature of the Black Lagoon are beyong uglyness. It is beyond my understanding that a table like TZ, a $50.000 table is released without any shadows, the thing looks flat like a pancake, and people say they love it.. This is the last thing I write about TPA's artwork, because I still think few folks see what I see and I don't want to sound like a little old lady that is complaining about every little unimportant thing in life. I want the best for TPA, this the only reason I write this.

They do feel very flat. I quit playing Zen pinball because they made the flatness of Pinball Arcade stand out so much worse. I love the idea of PA so much more but they do lack any visual depth. Playing Zen then going back just kinda bummed me out visually.
Man I wish the two companies could team up.

night said:

This is the last thing I write about TPA's artwork, because I still think few folks see what I see and I don't want to sound like a little old lady that is complaining about every little unimportant thing in life. I want the best for TPA, this the only reason I write this.

Click to expand...

True words, night. And you know what? I have no confidence that Farsight really sees this as a problem. "We are looking into it". Sure...

night said:

My biggest problem is the very basic hars 3D look of TPA. It just lacks love, it lacks athmosphere, it lacks depht. You see that it is done under time preasure, that they work with different teams, inconsistent. They have a set of pre-made textures that is used over and over again. I am a digital illustrator and 3D artist and always pushing myself to get the best out of my work. Dedication is something that you can see in someone's work, TPA latest table packs lacks this dedication, it's about production, the more platforms the better, but I don't care about such things. I am a buyer, I don't care they have to keep up with 2 tables a month. I want graphic quality. I want a table without bugs. I want a table without stutter problems. I want a decent menu without half a minute of scrolling before I find my table. As an artist I know there are people working in this team that are not skilled. Every graphic designer would have removed that redicioulus blue planet carpet 9 months ago in the iOS version, it conflicts with the tables artwork. Every graphic designer would have gone though many attemps to fix the dramatic plastic texturing that is tormenting my eyes on too many tables. Perhaps it's because it's my work and life as an artist that it bugs me too much, but the ramps on Creature of the Black Lagoon are beyong uglyness. It is beyond my understanding that a table like TZ, a $50.000 table is released without any shadows, the thing looks flat like a pancake, and people say they love it.. This is the last thing I write about TPA's artwork, because I still think few folks see what I see and I don't want to sound like a little old lady that is complaining about every little unimportant thing in life. I want the best for TPA, this the only reason I write this.

Click to expand...

I have seen shots of the ps3 version and I agree the visual inconsistencies are a big issue. I made the comment that the recent tables like Taxi and Harley Davidson look like the artist was color blind.

Then you have baffling design decisions like making the ramps solid in NGG.

As for the other platforms, I find the visuals are consistent on iOS and Xbox. Yes I agree about some of the issues with Twilight Zone but it's a mobile version so I don't get hung up on it. Certain areas like whatever the hell is wrong with the gumball machine lol will probably be adressed. It's difficult doing mobile because you need to code to the lowest common denominator, improve the graphics too much and all of a sudden iPhone 3 users are screwed etc. so I give them a pass on mobile, and think theyre "good enough" in my book.

As for platforms like Vita, that's unfortunate but things like that happen when small developers bite off more than they can chew. Would the game be a better quality on other platforms if they just cut out the smaller platforms like Vita and Mac? I hate to say it but probably.

However with all that being said I find the quality of the Xbox tables to be consistent, and pleasing to the eye across the board. It's a big improvement over HOF, it's 1080p native, and I don't feel it looks flat. iOS looks flat, Xbox doesn't. As for Zen, I'm gunna have to disagree with you I think it's a visual downgrade. Maybe I didn't play the right tables but I thought the game was ugly.

If I had to complain about the Xbox visuals, theres this weird artifacting issue that I have no idea what causes. You really only see it up super close on a big tv though. I also feel that some of the textures could be at a much higher quality. Some of them are downright lazy (bride of pinbot immediately comes to mind in areas) and overall at 1080P and with not this gigantic area to render I feel the textures should be near photo realistic. Hopefully high resolution texture packs are planned for the PC version (or 720, ps4 if those are planned).

I totally get why you'd be bothered by the visual problems. You're right, and the fact you can point these out shows you're good at what you do! It's like with me I see decisions like what they did with the pro mode and (lack of) marketing on xbox and it bugs me because I have a marketing background, or some posters like Sean DonCarlos feels where they made the physics too easy because of his background in coding physics (don't hurt me Sean if u read this, just trying to make an example >_<'). The solution here is simple Farsight just needs to hire us lol.

In all seriousness though, theres zero excuse for the ps3 quality. Get it up to snuff Farsight.

night said:

My biggest problem is the very basic hars 3D look of TPA. It just lacks love, it lacks athmosphere, it lacks depht. You see that it is done under time preasure, that they work with different teams, inconsistent. They have a set of pre-made textures that is used over and over again. I am a digital illustrator and 3D artist and always pushing myself to get the best out of my work. Dedication is something that you can see in someone's work, TPA latest table packs lacks this dedication, it's about production, the more platforms the better, but I don't care about such things. [...] This is the last thing I write about TPA's artwork, because I still think few folks see what I see and I don't want to sound like a little old lady that is complaining about every little unimportant thing in life. I want the best for TPA, this the only reason I write this.

Click to expand...

Thanks, for that. I'm too a 3D artist, and quite frankly, I almost thought of volunteering to do a proper light setup for them. Well, it's hard to believe they can't use any backed textures; as in: multiply at least the AO pass over your diffuse map!
I just finished a real time model of a shoe for a major sportswear company for an AR app. Using backed textures plus the shading of the engine resulted in visual quality I couldn't believe the first time I saw it running on the iPad. Man, I get old ;-)

See this is why I can't wait for the PC version. It's going to be unbelievable what the modding community is able to do with this game.

The fact remains this is a mobile phone game first and foremost. They won't admit it but it is. And this is why some of the visuals are off kilter, out of focus, low res, pixelated, washed out - call it what you will. I have complained about it somewhere else on here but it falls on deaf ears. You won't see a Farsighted employee around on this side of the forums very often.

Harley Davidson looks embarrassingly shambolic and at times I wish I could delete it from the game altogether. The front end is almost C64'esque. Background scans on the front end interface on the majority of new table packs is poor. Black Knight standing head and shoulders in this category. Very amateur.

I could go on but no your not alone in thinking the visuals are dire. But hey it's only the price of a st@rbucks coffee as the diehards hail it on f@cebook. Its the dearest cup of coffee I bought at £31.93.

Tron said:

The fact remains this is a mobile phone game first and foremost. They won't admit it but it is. And this is why some of the visuals are off kilter, out of focus, low res, pixelated, washed out - call it what you will.

Click to expand...

Again, I blame the FarSight team for this. We find a great graphic/lighting simulation example in Revenge of the Rob-o-Bot, and the Pro Pinball demo. There are tons of phone games that are visual eye-candies. If the knowledge and the talent is there it can be done. Let no-one make you believe that it's the limitations of this or that. I have had games on my Amiga that looked better.

LESS TIME patting yourself on the back FarSight every time a award is given out, and more time keeping customers in the loop .
More time making those delays shorter , more time keeping us informed when a delay for a scheduled tentaive release is imminent .

You got console customers eating out of your hand , we dont think your prices are too high , we dont think the game should be free , please mind us instead of the mass of mobile gamers who clog FaceBook with insults at you.

We do expect the game to get better , we do expect delays , but not delays that compound into months after the last delay. Get this lighting fixed , get the objects polished , get it done .

Personally I'd love to see the best looking digital pinball game out there with all the bells and whistles; but I also know Pinball Arcade is not a Pixar animated movie or a pre-rendered CGI cut scene or image. The engine they are using may not be able to do that things some might demand. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I just want the tables to look consistent. The version on the Kindle Fire HD does having all the lighting tricks; but fit the bill. Heck I'd be happy with them on the PC (the Fire HD 8.9 has a resolution of 1920x1200) with higher quality textures. I'm too busy playing to playing to notice the lack of some eye candy. It's the graphical issues that stand out that I'd like to see fixed on the PS3 (and not show up on the PC version).

[semi-rant]

Clearly, FarSight does not employ a professional artist or graphic designer.

The art is all over the place, whether it's the low resolution textures, the lighting, the lack of real time shadows, the lack of real-time (faux) reflections, or the overall presentation of the UI.

In particular, the UI is shambolic. It is truly dire; a joke, programmer-art.

Everything about the UI, from the icon to the logo to the buttons to the carousel reeks of cost-cutting and decision making by non-artists/designers.

Programmers should not be creating your "art".


Zen get a lot of (IMO, unfair) bashing from TPA fans. But there can be no dispute about Zen's attention to detail when it comes to the presentation. They obviously care about the overall package. They employ professionals to design the look of their work, and to ensure they look their best (even if I disagree with many of their design decisions, most notably with the Marvel tables.)

Whereas FS do not appear to care. They talk a good talk about "preserving" these tables, and honouring them, but they are willing to push out table after table, incomplete, buggy, on as many devices as they can, without paying attention to quality control or the very basics of good design.

For a long time, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Sure, I thought, PHOF was pretty ugly, and the physics were terrible (despite the claims of Zen bashers) but at least we had "real" tables to play.

But now we have "real" tables to play, and I'm finding that Farsight have not done justice to those tables. They deserve better, and Farsight's customers deserve better.

Butterkins said:

[semi-rant]

Clearly, FarSight does not employ a professional artist or graphic designer.

The art is all over the place, whether it's the low resolution textures, the lighting, the lack of real time shadows, the lack of real-time (faux) reflections, or the overall presentation of the UI.

In particular, the UI is shambolic. It is truly dire; a joke, programmer-art.

Everything about the UI, from the icon to the logo to the buttons to the carousel reeks of cost-cutting and decision making by non-artists/designers.

Programmers should not be creating your "art".


Zen get a lot of (IMO, unfair) bashing from TPA fans. But there can be no dispute about Zen's attention to detail when it comes to the presentation. They obviously care about the overall package. They employ professionals to design the look of their work, and to ensure they look their best (even if I disagree with many of their design decisions, most notably with the Marvel tables.)

Whereas FS do not appear to care. They talk a good talk about "preserving" these tables, and honouring them, but they are willing to push out table after table, incomplete, buggy, on as many devices as they can, without paying attention to quality control or the very basics of good design.

For a long time, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Sure, I thought, PHOF was pretty ugly, and the physics were terrible (despite the claims of Zen bashers) but at least we had "real" tables to play.

But now we have "real" tables to play, and I'm finding that Farsight have not done justice to those tables. They deserve better, and Farsight's customers deserve better.

Click to expand...

Most of us are pretty happy overall, despite some compaints. The table quality is steadily improving and older tables are frequently being updated.

Clearly you read a few rants and digested them as your own ideas. Well played, sir.

The UI will be vastly improved but seriously the choice of icon is no great sin. Even if the UI is not a graphical masterpiece, it is functional and it is a work in progress. The last two tables are of great quality. The two Elvira tables are of excellent quality. Big Shot was extremely well done and with very few exceptions, the bugs are minor annoyances.

Things are being done to improve minor gripes and graphic issues. Farsight aren't just using stacks of our cash as armchairs and cuban cigar lighters. As for the ui, if you li je to judge books by their covers, you just end up missing out on sone good books.