VP - Harder than the real thing?

Many of us have been complaining about how much we hate the dumbing down of TPA tables, but I've played a few VP tables after playing the IRL versions, and believe it or not, the VP versions are much harder! On EBD, I was able to sink the 8-ball and get the special, and earned three free games. The VP version, I can't even complete the bank! Similar story with TSPP, TAF (toured the mansion on two separate occasions IRL, never came close even once on VP, despite playing it far more often).
BOP, even with it's wonky flipper aiming, is much closer to the real life table than TPA.

Something about JPsalas' EBD has always felt off to me. Still very fun though.

Since almost all tables in VP have different physics they often play harder than the real thing. Some tables are much easier than the real thing also. (JPSalas AFM and whitewater springs to mind) Future pinball is also much harder than the real thing because you can not aim for things like you are supposed to. The aiming part is the main reason some digital pinball games seems harder than the real thing to me. That is probably why I feel TPA is much easier than the real thing because the physics are not that different from table to table and you can aim pretty accurate, therefor it is much easier to learn the basics of handling the ball. In my view a table should always be more difficult on a real machine because of the unpredictability of a real machine.

All this blabbering from me has of course nothing to do with dumbing down the table, but I feel dumbing down a table do not make that much of a difference. OK, to some degree the bumper post in TZ and the first ver of CV but that is options that williams put out there when the tables were new for operators to choose. To me that is not dumbing down. a fantastic addition to TPA would be the option to choose to take away things like the post on TZ for those that want more of a challange, but if they suddenly start to release PAPA settings on tables only I think their sales would go down. (that is of course the extreme other way)


EDIT 2: Richard I was also very surprised about how easy TAF is in real life. I think this could be one of the reasons it sold so well (along with a very popular theme and some easy to understand and ok rules of course)

I think VP tables are generally much easier, because of the simpler, prodictable physics, usually slower balls, and typically very easily controllable nudging.

However, almost every VP table I've played has had shots that were nearly impossible to make, due to the simple physics and, I guess, how the table was recreated. So while staying "alive" isn't a big problem on VP tables, making the shots that you need to, can be a much bigger problem than it should be. It's basically the single reason I never play VP tables.

It's definitely worth learning a bit about the physics of VP so you can tweak them to your liking. It can be the difference between shots being impossible, as Sumez mentioned above, and make-able.

But then, I just set personal records on TAF and FT last night, and I'm pretty sure I haven't touched the physics of either.

karl said:

EDIT: I agree with you on the Groni tables Jeff

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Oops, I meant JPsalas. I fixed my post.

Jeff Strong said:

Something about JPsalas' EBD has always felt off to me. Still very fun though.

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I was at one time in correspondance with JP regarding an issue i had where the ball would bounce off the flipper and rebound almost all the way up the left lane.

I had suggested some flipper settings to him and he told me he had never played the actual table and that is true of some of his recreations.

I find his table to play...logically well, but i too have never played the real thing, so I would never have known.

superballs said:

I was at one time in correspondance with JP regarding an issue i had where the ball would bounce off the flipper and rebound almost all the way up the left lane.

I had suggested some flipper settings to him and he told me he had never played the actual table and that is true of some of his recreations.

I find his table to play...logically well, but i too have never played the real thing, so I would never have known.

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That's exactly what feels weird to me about it as well, now that you mention it. I can't wait to see how Farsight's version compares.

I just re-read my post and realized that the way i worded it may be able to be perceived as a bit of a slam against JP.

Just for the record, he's one of my favorite authors and I meant no such thing...in fact, I meant it as a compliment as i still think he has the table pretty close with a few anomalies here and there...not to mention that they are absolute works of art visually.

One good explaination is the differences between tables when both JP and Groni have done them, as they both have versions of MM and AFM.

JPs tables are visually crisper as far as the textures go (Groni's up and coming tables not-withstanding) but Groni has great physics and more challenging tables in general

I have nothing against Groni tables. (sorry if I sounded negative) I know he has played a lot of real machines and his table physics are supposed to be closer to the real thing. I just seem to have more fun with JPsalas tables. Maybe Groni tables are just to hard for me I think it has a little bit to do with the fact that when I play VP I tend to want a great score fast and move on to try another table. There is so many to choose from and I just can't seem to linger to long on one single table. (I want to learn them all ) This will probably change when I finally get that VP cabinet. Btw, been playing a lot of pinuck's late 70' tables lately and those are really fantastic

What I do to get more realistic, I experimented with the flipper settings. And after some week of work I found these settings to apply as standard and if necessary tweak it from there:


Select each flipper and enter these values:

Speed: 0,15
Strength: 3
Elast: 0,55
Scatter: -11
Return Strength: 0,09
Recoil: 2
PowerLaw: 1
Oblique: 3

Now you can do almost all the pinball wizard tricks: cradle separations, tap pass, flick pass, live/drop catches, etc...
The flippers move a little slow, but have enough power to get up all the ramps. I readjust the strength again on certain tables, and lower it to a degree, so only near perfect shots shoot the ball all the way up a ramp. Just to make it a little harder.

Let me know if you like them too.

For me VP tables are like real tables when you get them the first time: adjust flippers, change rubbers (wall settings for slingshots, etc.) I'm just very, very lucky to have a lot of real tables in our local pinball club, so I can compare vp to the rl ones. I recently created a fb page for them, maybe you want to check out the galleries there www.facebook.com/Flippnic

Thanks for sharing your settings Mayuh. I will definitely check out those settings

How to set flipper? SET FLIPPER FREE!

All kidding aside, thanks for sharing. I'll try those settings out.

Thanks for sharing those settings Mayuh - I'll definitely try those out this week.

I think that one common thing that lacks in every flipper in every sim pinball is a degree of acceleration.

I mean, i know that the flippers accerate NEAR instantaneously, but both under load and when interrupted upon decent will have a very real effect with acceleration.