Playfield reflections - where have they gone?

kimkom · Feb 23, 2013

Okay, something had been bugging me about some of the recent table artwork. Something that I couldn't quite place, until today.

In my opinion, table lighting recently hasn't been as good as some of the older releases, resulting in a flatter overall look. That wasn't it though, there was something else.

Then it occured to me. Take a look at the following images and you'll notice that the ball reflection on the playfield has disappeared from STTNG onwards...

Looks good on Big Shot, even if the specular highlights in the reflection don't match the actual ball.

Also looks nice on TZ.

kimkom · Feb 23, 2013

Hmm... has it gone on STTNG?

Definitely not there on AFM.

Or Dr. Dude.

Matte 'n' Flat Firepower.

Obviously I would like to confirm this by loading them up on the old Xbox, but I can't. The tables I can load up all have a similar reflection to the above TZ and Big Shot images.

These pics were all grabbed from FarSight's own promo vids.

smbhax · Feb 23, 2013

Good catch! I suppose we won't know for sure until they actually come out on PS3/360.

night · Feb 24, 2013

We could have this quality on the mobiles if FarSight went prerendered...

karl · Feb 24, 2013

if they went prerendered, we would probably have a new pack once every year instead of every month. It is just to much work. That is also why there is so few prerendered tables in Visual pinball. It takes forever but looks incredible.

night · Feb 24, 2013

karl said:
if they went prerendered, we would probably have a new pack once every year instead of every month. It is just to much work. That is also why there is so few prerendered tables in Visual pinball. It takes forever but looks incredible.

Explain why prerendered is too much work? I bet dynamic graphics is waaay more work than prerendered.

karl · Feb 24, 2013

Yes if you were just painting a picture on a screen that would be correct. I am not an expert in the field, but Farsight has hinted at this and also the vp community has said the same. Something to do with the ROM communication and all the different variables happening in pinball. Remember that Pro pinball is all original tables scripted from scratch. That makes it a little easier (but still time consuming)

But on the topic as to why they have removed the ball reflections on the mobile platforms I have no idea. Probably to make the gameplay more smooth on low-end devices. Maybe it is time to put in some more graphic options in the menu on mobile/tables to let those that have the power enjoy it even more

Jeff Strong · Feb 24, 2013

karl said:
But on the topic as to why they have removed the ball reflections on the mobile platforms I have no idea. Probably to make the gameplay more smooth on low-end devices. Maybe it is time to put in some more graphic options in the menu on mobile/tables to let those that have the power enjoy it even more

Those are console screencaps up above, so this isn't about mobile platforms.

I'm not sure why they would remove something like this. Maybe it will be in the actual releases, but they had it turned off while they were taking the vids for some reason. I guess we'll have to wait and see when they're released on PS3, as smbhax said.

haj · Feb 24, 2013

karl said:
Yes if you were just painting a picture on a screen that would be correct. I am not an expert in the field, but Farsight has hinted at this and also the vp community has said the same. Something to do with the ROM communication and all the different variables happening in pinball. Remember that Pro pinball is all original tables scripted from scratch. That makes it a little easier (but still time consuming)

I wonder how does Rom emulation relate to that..

superballs · Feb 24, 2013

night said:
We could have this quality on the mobiles if FarSight went prerendered...

They're not going prerendered and it's not the solution to all the problems.
I don't feel like waiting again for all the tables to come out because it would require writing an entirely different engine. New graphics and rendering engine, new physics engine, new everything. The current engine has come so far and I couldn't name more than a handful of people who would be willing to start all over (including paying for all the tables again) just so we can stare at static images with a few dynamic objects and largely faked lighting.

How fast do you think Silverball is going to get all their tables out, redoing all their assets and lighting.

Farsight is sticking to their business model of table releases every month, like it or not.

On topic. I hope they just have the effect turned off, they must be giving us the videos playing on dev machines and not on fully complete/ported tables.
On the mobiles, personally i can't give a damn about ball reflections, I'm usually too busy playing pinball...seriously, I've never ever even noticed ball reflections while playing real pinball, I'm usually too busy paying attention to the actual ball.

xAzatothx · Feb 24, 2013

+1 superballs

Mike Reitmeyer · Feb 25, 2013

I'm not sure what happened. At some point near the release of ST the resource for the ball got messed up and the reflection changed. It's still there, just really hard to see. As soon as I figure out what changed I'll have a fix.

Kevlar · Feb 25, 2013

Good news Mike. Now while your on the line do you have any idea whats happening with the leaderboards?

Mike Reitmeyer · Feb 25, 2013

Kevlar said:
Good news Mike. Now while your on the line do you have any idea whats happening with the leaderboards?

Sorry I don't. James is the one who handles the leaderboard code. Since I do Xbox and Xbox uses it's own leaderboard I don't have any knowlege of how they work on the other platforms. Last I heard James was looking into the problem.

Kevlar · Feb 25, 2013

Thanks Mike. I see Rob has posted something along those lines in another thread now.

karl · Feb 25, 2013

Jeff Strong said:
Those are console screencaps up above, so this isn't about mobile platforms.

I'm not sure why they would remove something like this. Maybe it will be in the actual releases, but they had it turned off while they were taking the vids for some reason. I guess we'll have to wait and see when they're released on PS3, as smbhax said.

Teach me for not looking properly before blabbering. I just saw tables that are not out on consoles and thought IPAD. Did not occur to me it was the promos he was referring to. That is embarrassing

Jeff Strong · Feb 26, 2013

karl said:
Teach me for not looking properly before blabbering. I just saw tables that are not out on consoles and thought IPAD. Did not occur to me it was the promos he was referring to. That is embarrassing

Don't sweat it. It's not a big deal at all.

kimkom · Feb 26, 2013

Mike Reitmeyer said:
I'm not sure what happened. At some point near the release of ST the resource for the ball got messed up and the reflection changed. It's still there, just really hard to see. As soon as I figure out what changed I'll have a fix.

Thanks Mike, that's good to hear. I hope it's an easy fix.

Mike Reitmeyer · Feb 27, 2013

kimkom said:
Thanks Mike, that's good to hear. I hope it's an easy fix.

I know this is off topic, but the leaderboards should be working now.

Sean DonCarlos · Feb 27, 2013

Mike Reitmeyer said:
I know this is off topic, but the leaderboards should be working now.

It's never off-topic to announce good news.

Thanks, Mike!

Playfield reflections - where have they gone?

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