The wizard scores for the early-era tables needs to be lowered.

Chromium Dragon

New member
Jul 11, 2012
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250,000 on Big Shot? 3 Million on Genie? Seriously? These tables are almost entirely luck based.

Nudging is the only chance you have to even survive more than a second or two, because half the balls go straight down the middle. Which would be fine if nudging actually worked consistently. Sometimes it nudges. Sometimes it does nothing. Sometimes you can nudge all day long, and sometimes it tilts on the first nudge.

The space between the flippers is significantly wider than most later-era machines.

The holes for the outlanes are big enough for one of the balls from Hercules to roll through. And 90% of the time, if the ball goes anywhere in the same zipcode as one of the outlanes, the ball is as good as dead.

There are few safe shots that won't land the ball either straight down the middle or in one of the outlanes.

The bouncing is completely unpredictable -- one time it'll bounce where you expect it to, and the next time it'll go in a completely different direction. Some in the Big Shot threads like this unpredictability. But another word for that is "randomness". You can't beat randomness with skill. You beat it with luck. The wizard goals should be about skill, and there is nothing skillful about a game where the entire stragegy is hoping the ball doesn't randomly bounce down the middle.

Now don't get me wrong -- I actually *like* the tables. I actually enjoy simple tables like this, and often prefer them to some of the later-era tables where there's simply too much going on. But the wizard goal score should be brought down to a level that doesn't rely on insane amounts of luck to hit. Insanely high scores like 250k for BS and 3M for Genie don't make me want to play your table more. They make me simply quit the table in frustration and not spend money on your early-era tables again.

Scores of 150K and 1.5M, respectively, would be much more reasonable. Still luck based, but within reasonable limits that don't make you want to pull your hair out in frustration. The goal of the game should be to challenge and entertain you, not to tease you with goals that are out of reach for all but the luckiest .1% of players.
 
Apr 8, 2012
221
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I got over 300K on Big Shot after only 4 or 5 days of attempts. It wasn't luck, I can assure you that. I haven't gotten anywhere near 3 million on Genie yet but I'm not going to quit trying. If they lower to bar too much, why bother calling them "wizard" goals?
 

grashopper

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Sep 14, 2012
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150 would be way too easy on Big Shot. I think they picked a decent number on that one. Genie on the other hand.... That is a bit crazy.
 

Chromium Dragon

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Jul 11, 2012
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I got over 300K on Big Shot after only 4 or 5 days of attempts. It wasn't luck, I can assure you that. I haven't gotten anywhere near 3 million on Genie yet but I'm not going to quit trying. If they lower to bar too much, why bother calling them "wizard" goals?

Oh, of course it was skill. I hit some money on slot machines every once in a while using the exact same skills, I can assure you that, too.

It's skill when you can do it consistently. Doing it once or twice every 4-5 days is luck.

The fact that this has been out for several months now and less than 300 people have it on the PS3 and only 5 people have Genie (not counting the obvious hacks) is a pretty good indication that the bar was set a little too high. Wizard goals are supposed to test your skills, not see how lucky you are. On a board where the ball bounces randomly, nudges are random, and quick-drains before you can maintain ball control are commonplace, the score needs to be lowered to something more reasonable.
 

grashopper

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Sep 14, 2012
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I got all the wizard goals on Big Shot including the score one the day it came out. There is a skill to it. Playing safe shots to keep the ball away from the slingshots and nudging. Trying to clear a drop target bank then aiming for the special for a extra ball.

Really... How often do you think you should be hitting a wizard goal? If it was a score you could nail almost every game (like 150k on Big Shot) what's the point?
I do agree genie is a bit steep though
 
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Kevlar

New member
Feb 20, 2012
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He's dead right about Genie, there are only 4 people on the leaderboard to top 3m ( plus 4 obvious leaderboard hacked scores ). Big shot on the other hand has nearly 300.
 

ScotchYeti

Member
Apr 13, 2012
447
0
Wizard goals are per definition hard to achieve. Keep on trying, "Big Shot" is doable with patience although depending on your skill you will need many games (it took me 3 weeks). Find a way to deal with the frustration, identify the safe shots on the table and don't give up.

Genie is a different story. It hurts the eyes too much on the PS3 so I haven't invested much time yet.
 
Last edited:
Apr 8, 2012
221
0
Oh, of course it was skill. I hit some money on slot machines every once in a while using the exact same skills, I can assure you that, too.

It's skill when you can do it consistently. Doing it once or twice every 4-5 days is luck.

Oh, can you complete the Milwaukee Multiball, Battle for the Kingdom, Moshpit Multiball Super Jackpot, or 4 Trapdoor Loops on Funhouse goals (to name a few) at will? If you can do those consistently, then you are a much better player than I am. It took me weeks for each one of those and it would probably take me weeks to do any of them again. For most EM tables, the only challenging goal is ever going to be a high score. I don't think Big Shot's was unreasonable at all. I might have to eventually agree on Genie since I'm still shy of 1 million right now but that remains to be seen.
 

pinbot-76

New member
Jul 11, 2012
82
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Big shot is doable, but Genie wizard goals are so tough I'm not even shooting for them. Really fun games though! Would love to see a few more EM titles peppered through what is left of the PS3 TPA.
 

Sean DonCarlos

Moderator
Staff member
Mar 17, 2012
4,293
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Wizard goals are supposed to test your skills, not see how lucky you are. On a board where the ball bounces randomly, nudges are random, and quick-drains before you can maintain ball control are commonplace, the score needs to be lowered to something more reasonable.
I hate to tell you this, but as a player of real machines, achieving their wizard modes involves considerable luck, even for skillful players. All players eventually make an ill-considered shot that powers the ball into trouble with no chance of a save. Sometimes it drains, other times the spin was just right or it rattled around just so and it comes back into play.

I just completed "Destroy the Ring" on Lord of the Rings last night, after two previous unsuccessful attempts. There's a Palantir standup target next to the Ring shot - that standup is designed to be a death shot. All three attempts I have hit it instead of the Ring ramp, basically in the same way. The first two times I was (rightfully) punished for it with a drain. Last night I was not. Was I playing any more skillfully last night? I doubt it - skillful play would not have hit that target at all!

More to your point, I've not noticed Big Shot or Genie behaving randomly with respect to the ball's movement. There are tables that have issues with that, but those are Attack from Mars and Cactus Canyon.

For Big Shot: Stay off the slings. More generally, avoid side-to-side motion as much as possible. Nudge as needed to accomplish this. Cradle the ball after each nudge to let the tilt settle - BS doesn't have tilt warnings, so it's important to be patient and let it settle so that when you need a big nudge you can do it safely.

For Genie: First priority on each ball is to earn an extra ball. Three million is too long of a slog to complete with 3 or 5 balls, so you'll need to be able to earn extras reliably. After that, I usually try to advance bonus and multiplier. Contrary to the OP's opinion, Genie is very controllable; nudging is made even easier by the fact the ball moves slowly. Stay out of the lower left area, as that forked return lane will eventually get you. Otherwise, play slowly and carefully. There's no jackpot or other singularly high-scoring shots on Genie, so it's more of an endurance contest than anything.
 

DrainoBraino

New member
Apr 11, 2012
634
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Wizard goals are per definition hard to achieve. Keep on trying, "Big Shot" is doable with patience although depending on your skill you will need many games (it took me 3 weeks). Find a way to deal with the frustration, identify the safe shots on the table and don't give up.

Genie is a different story. It hurts the eyes too much on the PS3 so I haven't invested much time yet.
Yes, WIZARD goals should be insane. I think they should have super wizard, Gandalf goals, or something that are nearly unattainable. As it is now, most of the wizard goals are waaaaay too easy. I will agree on the Genie wizard goal though, that should be a Gandalf.
 

SKILL_SHOT

Banned
Jul 11, 2012
3,659
1
I dont think NON-PS3 players should comment on the PS3 version of GENIE or youd know the pop bumpers dont work and dual stage mini upper flippers make it extremely difficult to keep a ball up top which usually results in the ball heading for the ABCD targets just to ROLL OFF the pop bumper and head for the outlane split that 75% of the time goes left even if it goes right it will rebound left. There is only 1 person who's got the 3million goal on PS3 and this was due to an extra ball bug like the other 2 who have done it on mobile.
 

Malpeine

New member
Oct 9, 2012
28
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(Sorry for my bad English)

I've got it on PS3 :cool:. I was able to stack several multiballs during that game.

On topic, a wizard goal should be challenging.
 
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Malpeine

New member
Oct 9, 2012
28
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I was just confirming what you've said.

(Even with that (All EB do not stack), i find this table difficult enough.)
 

warh0g

New member
Jan 3, 2013
618
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I dont think NON-PS3 players should comment on the PS3 version of GENIE or youd know the pop bumpers dont work and dual stage mini upper flippers make it extremely difficult to keep a ball up top which usually results in the ball heading for the ABCD targets just to ROLL OFF the pop bumper and head for the outlane split that 75% of the time goes left even if it goes right it will rebound left. There is only 1 person who's got the 3million goal on PS3 and this was due to an extra ball bug like the other 2 who have done it on mobile.

I agree, the pop bumpers are rarely triggered. A bit like it is on AFM aswell, often the ball literally rolls into the bumpers and then just rolls away without any trigger whatsoever :S
 

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