Request for table tips: Time Machine (or any table really)

Pavig · Nov 3, 2013

Hi.

Of all the tables, I find Time Machine the most inexplicable. The mini playfield ABCDEF targets seem almost impossible to get, flipper response is wandery, and the time loop super hard to give enough momentum to complete. (Also ABCDEF targets don't seem to go out when hit, which looks like a bug to me as they do in the real table.) The specials never seem to pay etc.

Am I missing something with this table? No ammount of physics tweaking or practice seems to let me play it well. Any hints for physics, strategies, or information on how it works and how to score well would be much appreciated.

(Also play hints on other tables appreciated too.)

tripleplonq · Nov 3, 2013

I just had a 20x bonus multiplier, so the time loop shot works for me, but I can confirm the other bugs.
There is also a weird sound bug when the bonus is awarded.
And the sounds for the standup targets on the mini playfield are missing too.

Pavig · Nov 3, 2013

Guess I just have to practice, practice, practice that loop shot. As for the bugs I've done some more exploring and compared to a real table and will post in the bug thread. Also I noticed from YouTube old versions play very differently, and the physics seems more solid on the iPhone. Go figure.

tripleplonq · Nov 4, 2013

On my iPad 1, I always play in Landscape with the camera a little zoomed out so that the playfield covers ca. 2/3 of the screen. This gives me a higher frame rate and smoother gameplay. I don't know if this is the same on newer devices, but it's very noticeable on the first iPad.

Pavig · Nov 4, 2013

Thanks for the hint. The ipad 3 was rather underpowered to drive the retina screen so frame rate is an issue mine too (which apple realized as they replaced the model very quickly with the 4). I often play the tables with the glass off. The extra drawing layer effects frame rate when pushed. Dirt especially taxes it. New generation iPads released this week have approximately 4x the graphical grunt. I wonder if the low frame rate effects the physics model?

tripleplonq · Nov 4, 2013

Pavig said:
I wonder if the low frame rate effects the physics model?

I think it does. Not the model itself but it seems to have a higher temporal resolution, so it is maybe more accurate.
(In version 1 the framerate was so poor the ball often passed straight through the flippers, but that version was not recommended for iPad anyway.)

Pavig · Nov 5, 2013

tripleplonq said:
I think it does. Not the model itself but it seems to have a higher temporal resolution, so it is maybe more accurate.
(In version 1 the framerate was so poor the ball often passed straight through the flippers, but that version was not recommended for iPad anyway.)

That would make sense. I had wondered if the non-functioning standup targets may be a quirk of frame rate and the physics model, ie. the rubbers moving the ball out of the boundary of the collision target before the physics engine has time to register the overlap, (so the actual collision happens _between_ frames, and never gets registered.). It would make sense for earlier tables such as time machine to fall victim to tweaks in physics for later tables, as seems to be the case. (I've worked in game design and when physics engines go awry problems are often of the sort I just mentioned.)

The ABCDEF target lights and missing sounds however look like a code reversion, ie old code being compiled into the recent release, as they are ancient bugs which I believe were fixed long ago.

The one area In the physics engine I really think may need tuning for these old machines is the rubber elasticity curves between posts...

.______________
(0____________0)
A. B. C.

Ie. bouncyness when hitting A (near the post) should be very muted (which is currently correct). Moving from B to C impact points should produce a marked slingshot effect, as these old white rubbers have great elasticity and will reverse the trajectory of the ball quite effectively... Not adding velocity like a powered slingshot, but certainly translating more momentum into the bounce than in the current engine.

tripleplonq · Nov 5, 2013

Something is seriously wrong with version 1.8. Shooting the Rapids also has two faulty standup targets. I hope they can fix this fast.

The elasticity gradients might be a little harder to implement(If they don't already have a elasticity map or something) and if they have to redo all the tables to add that I would prefer having new table releases instead. And of course fixing all the weird 1.8 bugs should be their highest priority now.

Pavig · Nov 5, 2013

I have a feeling they have elasticity ramps already. They seem to model quite a lot. Unless I am mistaken they're also modelling dual solenoid (or dual voltage) flippers as well (although their curves seem a bit off, but I have been unable to find solid specs on the Zac flipper system from that era so they may be right and I may be talking though my hat.)

Indeed there are quite a few wobbles in 1.8, and I'd be happier to see new tables and fixes for the old ones than to waste time on tweaks at this point.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if IOS7 or the new XCode (apple's development tool) is kicking their butts lately. A lot has changed under the surface in IOS and it has sent many developers back to the drawing board to ensure compatibility with all the new environment. Whenever Apple moves the furniture it's not hard to bump into things.

I'm very thankful for ASK doing the great work to bring the Zac tables back from the dead. They're charming machines, and I am in love with their physics engine (my favorite pinball sim on any platform) despite my quibbles.

I'm currently documenting a likely bug in the red special on Devil Riders, so would appreciate playtips so I can stay alive long enough to reproduce it, or anyone who wants to playtest with me to figure out if it's real or not.

Request for table tips: Time Machine (or any table really)

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