HDTV, Game Mode, Lag vs IQ

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PinballLizard (Mark Wyda)

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Feb 19, 2014
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In this thread, post what type of display you have and how pinball arcade looks and plays in it.

I have a 55" LED Samsung. The game in regular mode looks incredible.

However there's a slight lag unfortunately in response.

Turn on game mode, and the lag is gone. Unfortunately, the image quality takes a massive dive! Everything is more jaggy, blurry, overall in both motion and still looks nowhere near as good.

It's a real shame. In order to have amazing visuals you sacrifice gameplay and in order to have perfect gameplay sacrifice visuals. It's kinda a bummer, I'm wondering if there are good TV's out there that do both without compromise.
 
brakel

brakel

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Apr 27, 2012
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65" F7100 samsung LED lit LCD. I play in game mode but I recalibrated in game mode. Backlight or brightness settings that are too high can make jaggies look worse. My Samsung has 39ms of lag in game mode which is in the good category. My old Sony Bravia LCD must have been much worse because I could tell a huge difference when I got the Samsung. It was a few weeks ago, so before the patch.
 
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PoSTedUP

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Dec 14, 2013
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40" bravia V series LCD with PS3, like 6-7 years old. looks good, not really any lag at all, plays pretty good. i dont play it much on ps3 tho, only on vita. i want an OLED tv as my next one, when im ready to buy a PS4. ive been waiting patiently.

@brakel- 39ms? my old bravia has 8ms... unless you meant 9ms* i dont think they would ship them with 39ms response time, if they did that would be in the very very horrible category XD.
 
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Indy99

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May 24, 2013
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Brakel, i too have the 65 inch f7100. Can you post what settings you use in game mode? I have all read that if you choose the input name as PC, it will reduce lag even more, but disable any additional picture processing that game mode alone uses.
 
ER777

ER777

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PoSTedUP said:
40" bravia V series LCD with PS3, like 6-7 years old. looks good, not really any lag at all, plays pretty good. i dont play it much on ps3 tho, only on vita. i want an OLED tv as my next one, when im ready to buy a PS4. ive been waiting patiently.

@brakel- 39ms? my old bravia has 8ms... unless you meant 9ms* i dont think they would ship them with 39ms response time, if they did that would be in the very very horrible category XD.
Click to expand...

The 8ms response time the manufacturer quotes is only measuring how long it takes the pixel to change from unlit to lit and back. There's even variation in how some manufacturers measure that to make the numbers sound better in some cases (like don't get excited when the cheap brands quote 4ms).

The numbers that Brakel is quoting measure the actual amount of time it takes for the TV to display an input image, which includes both processing time and the pixel response time. Its a much truer measurement of how much real delay the TV causes. My Samsung LCD from 2008 is near 60ms total display time so its not really a great TV for gaming technically speaking, but the picture looks better in game mode than my Sony that's around 40ms so its a trade-off. They're both 120hz refresh rate TVs so that means they can be no worse than 8ms for pixel response time or they would not be capable of refrehing the display 120 times per second.
 
brakel

brakel

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Indy99 said:
Brakel, i too have the 65 inch f7100. Can you post what settings you use in game mode? I have all read that if you choose the input name as PC, it will reduce lag even more, but disable any additional picture processing that game mode alone uses.
Click to expand...

My settings in game mode are as follows:
Backlight 10
Contrast 80
brightness 40
sharpness 0
Color 57
tint G46/R54

I calibrated using the Disney Wow disc. I watch in a pretty dark room so your backlight and brightness values might need to be tweaked a bit. I think color and tint are things that vary a little per panel but my findings were only slightly off defaults.

PC mode won't reduce lag. People use PC mode because it gives the same response as game mode but also turns off micro dimming. The dimming can cause issues in dark scenes during games making it harder to see. It's not an issue playing TPA. I think you'll find the picture unacceptable in PC mode. If you're having problems with dimming in other games there's two work arounds that I know of for our TV. Let me know if you need them and I'll dig them up and post them.
 
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PoSTedUP

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ER777 said:
The 8ms response time the manufacturer quotes is only measuring how long it takes the pixel to change from unlit to lit and back. There's even variation in how some manufacturers measure that to make the numbers sound better in some cases (like don't get excited when the cheap brands quote 4ms).

The numbers that Brakel is quoting measure the actual amount of time it takes for the TV to display an input image, which includes both processing time and the pixel response time. Its a much truer measurement of how much real delay the TV causes. My Samsung LCD from 2008 is near 60ms total display time so its not really a great TV for gaming technically speaking, but the picture looks better in game mode than my Sony that's around 40ms so its a trade-off. They're both 120hz refresh rate TVs so that means they can be no worse than 8ms for pixel response time or they would not be capable of refrehing the display 120 times per second.
Click to expand...

thanks. yeah i realized this earlier and got side tracked, you guys are right. "input lag" ms is different from the pixel ms refresh rate. i forgot about it completely. the vitas response time is rapid fast, as well as the pixel ms (i think like .001ms or something, same as the galaxyS3 AMOLED i think), pretty much why i perfer playing TPA on it. i couldnt find the input lag for my tv earlier, i thought the internet contained all info! >_<. it seems pretty quick tho, nothing that noticeable really.
 
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Daniel Osborne

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Feb 28, 2012
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On Samsung TV select the input, press 'tools' select rename to 'pc'. Lag is halved on some of their sets down to about 30ms.
I cannot stand these 'dynamic' TV pre sets.
I have a Sony W6 42, lag is around 9ms, running it in game mode, original, which is kinda closer to d65 than most modes for gaming.
 
brakel

brakel

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Daniel Osborne said:
Pc mode does reduce lag, but not always. Please read the reviews on AVForums.com and hdtvtest.
Click to expand...

I was only speaking about the particular model that Indy99 and I have. Measured with the Bodnar device the Samsung UNxxF7100 shows no difference in lag between the game mode and PC mode.
 
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Spike Forehand

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May 14, 2013
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I'm using a Sony VPL-HW30ES projector in "Game" mode, which has a reported lag time of 16-22ms. I have virtually no noticeable lag on PS4 - better than TPA on my ipad 2.
 
GregoroV

GregoroV

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Panasonic 42" vt30 plasma here. Tpa looks amazing on ps3 and 4. Pastel colour pallet of plasma really nicely tone down over bright colours, so tables looks very natural. Im playing in THX mode, there is no lag at all.
 
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Alex Atkin UK

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I have an LG 47LW550T which has to have the worst input latency on the planet, somewhere upwards of 60ms. It also looks much more vibrant in Normal mode than Game mode.

That's the nature of the technology, the better the picture requires more processing which means more latency. Even in Game mode my TV looks better than my 24" IPS monitor, which sadly I sometimes have to use to play Pinball Arcade due to the huge lag on my TV.

There is always a compromise unless you have a LOT of money to throw at a TV. This HDTV market got too saturated and so the manufacturers cut corners. :( I'm hoping my next TV will be a lot better than this. Its a shame, because the normal picture on this (especially in 3D mode) is excellent.
 
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PinballLizard (Mark Wyda)

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Feb 19, 2014
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GregoroV said:
Panasonic 42" vt30 plasma here. Tpa looks amazing on ps3 and 4. Pastel colour pallet of plasma really nicely tone down over bright colours, so tables looks very natural. Im playing in THX mode, there is no lag at all.
Click to expand...

So is Plasma the way to go then, for no lag without compromising image quality?
 
GregoroV

GregoroV

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Depends, some peoples dont like colours on plasma. LCD gives brighter more colorfull picture, which is more apilling for some.
Plasma is best when it comes for Quick moving objects, becouse of quicknes of the panel. So picture is the best in "game mode" where all extra picture upgrades are diseabled.
Best thing is to go to the shop and see by yourself. Preferebly in some show room. Seeing few tvs next to eachother we are ususally drawn to the brighter picture.
 
brakel

brakel

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One thing that I found while researching TVs this year is that the current TV technology has created a situation where there is no perfect or even near perfect TV. Every TV and every technology has its compromises. I finally settled on the 65" Samsung UN65F7100. I watch a lot of movies and TV shows with movie like qualities and I play a lot of games. It hits the middle of both. The worst part of this TV and any other edge lit LCD is flashlighting and clouding. I use my TV in a dark enough room that I can minimize those issues by being able to keep the backlight and brightness relatively low. The TV has some input lag but it's good enough for what I do. It probably wouldn't be good enough for someone who is playing Street Fighter competitively.

http://www.displaylag.com/introducing-2013s-best-hdtvs-for-gaming-part-1/
 
mpad

mpad

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Thank you guys!
I'm a samsung ue40c6000 owner and never heard of the secret renaming pc mode before. I naturally thought game mode would be the optimal setting for gaming.
Pc Mode (renaming HDMI1 to PC DVI) makes a huge difference for input lag. It changes a lot! Way better than game mode. And with some adjustments even better image quality. I use the display in my cab on a pc, but it should also work for consoles.
 
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