Request Hold off the DLC & fix the bugs

I don't mean this post to come off negative, just logical, so please don't take this too critically.

I think Farsight has set the bar too high, I would suggest holding off the DLC for a month or so to plug some of the bugs running through some of their (many) table releases.

The last DLC (FH & CV) are still riddled with bugs as well as their last DLC (MM flipper gap).

I personally believe they are banging out too much stuff without a proper play test. I'm excited by MB & Gorgar, but most times I fire up TPA I find a bug.

My personal opinion is quality over quantity, what does everyone else think?

I think releasing the tables is the best way to discover bugs. Sure, the initial release in some cases is a bit like an unofficial beta test but I prefer to play around with the tables even in an imperfect state rather than wait.

A number of us have offered to beta test early builds and at least with the android versions Farsight have provided early builds for us. There are also 13 people so far from the kickstarter which will be made official beta testers so that should help.

In my experiences, the bugs aren't too bad.

DopedToInfinity said:

I personally believe they are banging out too much stuff without a proper play test. I'm excited by MB & Gorgar, but most times I fire up TPA I find a bug.

My personal opinion is quality over quantity, what does everyone else think?

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I'm mixed. Some bugs are understandable, like the flipper shadows in CV or the black cabinet in FH. Human error, they were just missed, doesn't affect gameplay, etc. But some are real howlers, like the multiball issues in CV, which happens often enough that somebody at FarSight should have seen it repeatedly. On the third hand, FS is a smallish studio, they are releasing on many platforms and have limited resources to devote to traditional beta testing.

Maybe once the PC version is out, FarSight will have the means to do public betas of tables before they're released on other platforms? (This would depend highly on the choice of distribution method.) It's not like there's a shortage of us willing to participate. And given the wide variety of PC configurations, it is not reasonable for FarSight to cover all possibilities in studio anyway. Bring out a pair of tables a month early on PC as a beta, let us try to break it in as many ways as possible, and then fix the errors before submitting on the other platforms. Maybe let the iOS and Android markets in on the beta action as well, if there's some way of conveniently doing that.

ND3G said:

There are also 13 people so far from the kickstarter which will be made official beta testers so that should help.

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That's only for Twilight Zone (and ST:TNG, should a miracle happen and we exceed $110K) as I understand it.

Playing on ios, I've found the new bugs in CV to be annoying enough that I stopped playing it. Played a lot of BOP and MM lately and they're working pretty good for me. Except that huge flipper gap in MM though.

PinFreak68 said:

In my experiences, the bugs aren't too bad.

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They really aren't... In fact, they very often amuse me, and I enjoy seeing what is fixed and improved upon in each release.

So, I disagree with the OP... don't hold back on DLC. 2 tables per month.

Serenseven said:

Maybe let the iOS and Android markets in on the beta action as well, if there's some way of conveniently doing that..

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Android has a beta program that is openly talked about on these forums.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this, it was just something I thought of when I got to the pub & CV fired 2 balls from the plunger. Like most people I'm eager for DLC, and to be honest I'm questioning myself about my original statement because I do want new tables in my hot little hands yesterday!!! (bugs or not).

Either way bugs or new tables, I'm still a happy chappie, I have 3 months of unread comics on my ipad thanks to TPA!!!

<- Agree with original post.

Holding off on DLC means no cash flow for FarSight...remember, these guys still need to get paid. This is not just a hobby for them, but their livelihood as well.

You're screwing people over with this. If they release a patch that only fixes bugs then they have to pay a hefty patch fee on the consoles. it's best to include bug fixes in DLC patches.

Releasing buggy tables means no cash flow for them in the future when they lose customers because they've decided not to purchase any more bugged tables on buggy software.

They definitely need to get paid. They put things at risk though with this current business model.

starck said:

Releasing buggy tables means no cash flow for them in the future when they lose customers because they've decided not to purchase any more bugged tables on buggy software.

They definitely need to get paid. They put things at risk though with such a business model.

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These tables are far from unplayable and I seriously doubt that many would totally abandon The Pinball Arcade because tables are released with a few bugs, that are usually fixed in a timely manner I might add, considering how cheap the game and DLC tables are to purchase. As long as FarSight continues to aggressively support The Pinball Arcade with new DLC, features and bug fixes, I just don't see many that would flat out drop TPA.

bavelb said:

Android has a beta program that is openly talked about on these forums.

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I thought that one was by invitation only. I was speaking of an open public beta.

starck said:

Releasing buggy tables means no cash flow for them in the future when they lose customers because they've decided not to purchase any more bugged tables on buggy software.

They definitely need to get paid. They put things at risk though with this current business model.

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A few people might abandon ship, but these people are not being rational if they do. Are there problems? Yes. Do they need to be fixed? Yes. Will they be fixed? Yes. Just give it time.

Skyrim: $60, major developer, massive game-breaking issues at launch, probably will never quite work correctly if Oblivion is any indication.
Diablo III: $60, major developer, massive logon issues at launch, has had two patches and some hotfixes in its first month although Blizzard is usually on top of correcting issues promptly.
Pinball Arcade: $10-$20 depending on how much DLC is out on your platform, small developer, and with two exceptions (Black Hole's camera and Cirqus Voltaire's multiballs) the tables have always been playable if not 100% accurate.

I am aware of no indications that the first two games are bleeding customers because of their issues; therefore I don't see why the third should, either.

starck said:

Releasing buggy tables means no cash flow for them in the future when they lose customers because they've decided not to purchase any more bugged tables on buggy software.

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Personally I think Farsight will gain more customers by releasing a steady stream of tables than they would lose due to bugs.

Besides, the first few months are going to be rather turbulent but it will start to smooth out with time.

Skyrim and Diablo analogies are irrelevant as those games are designed from the bottom-up to be addictive as hell. Seriously. Their core fan group of people will play the games if they're half broken from start to finish, simply because...it's a really, really addictive game. More so than any pinball game will ever be, IMO.

Plus, it's a whole different ballgame with Skyrim and Diablo- those are HUGE TITLES. Those are gigantic games- Skyrim is a huge, open world RPG sim where you can do anything and be anyone. Bugs in those kinds of games (and from Bethesda) are kind of a given- you know what you're getting into. You also know that there will be patches along the way to fix said bugs. That's why I waited until last month to buy Skyrim. I almost didn't buy it at all. They finally released another PS3 patch, and as far as I'm concerned, the game plays really damn well, with the occasional odd glitch every so often.


Anyways, nevermind. That's all I've got to say on this topic.

starck said:

Skyrim and Diablo analogies are irrelevant as those games are designed from the bottom-up to be addictive as hell. Seriously. Their core fan group of people will play the games if they're half broken from start to finish, simply because...it's a really, really addictive game. More so than any pinball game will ever be, IMO.

Plus, it's a whole different ballgame with Skyrim and Diablo- those are HUGE TITLES. Those are gigantic games- Skyrim is a huge, open world RPG sim where you can do anything and be anyone. Bugs in those kinds of games (and from Bethesda) are kind of a given- you know what you're getting into. You also know that there will be patches along the way to fix said bugs. That's why I waited until last month to buy Skyrim. I almost didn't buy it at all. They finally released another PS3 patch, and as far as I'm concerned, the game plays really damn well, with the occasional odd glitch every so often.


Anyways, nevermind. That's all I've got to say on this topic.

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My apologies, I wasn't expecting you to get gang tackled like that, I was just trying to state my point as well. I think you hit the nail on the head with the portion of your post I highlighted as it's pretty much the same with The Pinball Arcade...by now, most people know what they're getting up front and at the same time accept it for the same reasons you stated in your post.

You can always wait until bugs are fixed before purchasing any Table Pack.

starck said:

Bugs in those kinds of games (and from Bethesda) are kind of a given- you know what you're getting into. You also know that there will be patches along the way to fix said bugs.

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Ah, so we agree after all! Just apply the same logic to TPA and voila! No more problem!

Are the bugs actually being fixed?

I was under the impression that new tables were being released with no bugfixing whatsoever since the release.

A number of bugs have been fixed since the tables were first released. Some are on the third revision already.