Discussion thread about the FreeCamera Mod

Robert Misner · Feb 6, 2016

Rooter said:
This definitely is not true. Future Pinball was abandoned for years and someone came around and created an app that could listen to FP and output to a real DMD. It's a mod that could be done, just like FreeCamera.

Amazing, my mistake ..guess theres more hope for this than I thought

cheers

NoEx · Feb 8, 2016

mpad said:
Another question to noex:
Is it possible to set a default size for the DMD in the settings in? So I don't have to resize every single one?
Maybe only set horizontal size and start from there...

Not possible at the moment, actually it's based on the source dmd size.

Another solution would be to copy/paste each dmd file to another table name if the dmd size & position is the same.

mpad · Feb 13, 2016

hey you guys. Ithink I have the stutter problem. Don't know if I didn't notice before or if I accidentially changed something.
I have win 7 64, 2 displays, aero activated and all. I know what I am doing with a PC. GPU load is 30% at max., so no performance issue.

generally the game is smooth and fast, but with the mod sometimes it stutters or the ball hangs for a split second. this is a no go for pinball.

without running the free cam mod or when I alt+tab after the game is loaded it is super smooth perfect (window size and allignment is not correct), but when the mod runs as intentioned I get stutter.

any suggestions?
does this go away with win8.1 or 10 (I could upgrade)?

thanks

lettuce · Feb 14, 2016

Regarding the work Robert Misner has done on the camera settings, i notice there is 3 variations, how do you switch between the 3?. as when i press the camera button in game the view doesnt change?

SickBoy · Feb 14, 2016

At this point FarSight really just needs to hire NoEx as a contractor to add in an official version. It's the simplest solution if you ask me, and would allow for much-desired changes that just aren't possible through the mod method.

lettuce said:
Regarding the work Robert Misner has done on the camera settings, i notice there is 3 variations, how do you switch between the 3?. as when i press the camera button in game the view doesnt change?

I'm not sure how he has his files setup, but by default NoEx's mod can support 3 camera angles per table, using the F1-F3 keys to toggle between them. I usually do one that is at 2.0 FOV, another at 1.0 FOV (for friends that prefer it, though I find it too fisheye), and one for a backglass-included view, primarily for tables like Scared Stiff or Safe Cracker.

If it's 3 completely different files, then you need to manually load them via the mod's GUI (toggleable with numpad 0)... though you could always manually mix and match the XML content to make your own quickly toggleable version.

Robert Misner · Feb 14, 2016

mpad said:
hey you guys. Ithink I have the stutter problem. Don't know if I didn't notice before or if I accidentially changed something.
I have win 7 64, 2 displays, aero activated and all. I know what I am doing with a PC. GPU load is 30% at max., so no performance issue.

generally the game is smooth and fast, but with the mod sometimes it stutters or the ball hangs for a split second. this is a no go for pinball.

without running the free cam mod or when I alt+tab after the game is loaded it is super smooth perfect (window size and allignment is not correct), but when the mod runs as intentioned I get stutter.

any suggestions?
does this go away with win8.1 or 10 (I could upgrade)?

thanks

did you change it to be fullscreen vs window?
also did you crank up the resolution for downsampling perhaps? the default window size actually renderers more then the game does by default
as well perhaps gsync, vsync or extreme external AA modes?
just spit balling some ideas. turn dx11 settings down to 1080x2200 to start and increase from there

Robert Misner · Feb 14, 2016

lettuce said:
Regarding the work Robert Misner has done on the camera settings, i notice there is 3 variations, how do you switch between the 3?. as when i press the camera button in game the view doesnt change?

within the mod.ini theres a setting to toggle between 3 views i think its f4 by default..set that key to be the same as the games ingame view change key..keeps it simple

Robert Misner · Feb 14, 2016

SickBoy said:
At this point FarSight really just needs to hire NoEx as a contractor to add in an official version. It's the simplest solution if you ask me, and would allow for much-desired changes that just aren't possible through the mod method.

I'm not sure how he has his files setup, but by default NoEx's mod can support 3 camera angles per table, using the F1-F3 keys to toggle between them. I usually do one that is at 2.0 FOV, another at 1.0 FOV (for friends that prefer it, though I find it too fisheye), and one for a backglass-included view, primarily for tables like Scared Stiff or Safe Cracker.

If it's 3 completely different files, then you need to manually load them via the mod's GUI (toggleable with numpad 0)... though you could always manually mix and match the XML content to make your own quickly toggleable version.

I think F4 is default for cycle between views.
I got hybrid with backglass view..for no really good reason other then tables like cyclone where you need to see the backglass.
a Cab top down view with as close to 6.5 FOV as I could get per table..thats probably 3 screen cab players preferred mode and my preferred which is cab mod with a FOV of 3 which is zoomed in a bit more which seems more ideal for 27" playfields like mine or others with mini cabs or 2 screen setups.
I like the angled view better in that one..it feels more natural.

mpad · Feb 14, 2016

Hey Robert, thanks for the answer. I have it to windowed and use the standard 2200 resolution.
I have set all the graphics enhancements in the TPA config to zero, but I cranked up everything else in the nvidia driver. FXAA with 32xcsaa and so on.
This is normally no problem for my setup, without the mod everything is butter smooth and I get 30-40% gpu load.

Do you think excessive use of the driver forced settings could mess with the whole multiple windows aero thing?

Maybe using TPA internal settings and going for downsampling is the better approach...

If anyone confirms that this is all no problem in win 8 I won't hesitate to upgrade...

Robert Misner · Feb 14, 2016

I would just turn off the extras till you work out whats causing the stutter.(turn on fps in steam for the game will let you see if its dropping below 60
I don't get any studder except when I'm dropping frames. As well make sure your playfield is the default monitor ,
this happens as well when the dreaded White crush bloom lighting bug kicks in..where you'll notice lights are over saturated and bright (caps of phantom bumpers are blanched out..and tables like Circus basically run about half their usual fps.
This is bug that seams to randomly show up when you launch, and is part of the game not the mod Ive seen it with out the mod on 2 different pc's one with Nvidia and the other ATI .but it kills performance quite abit.
You can see when its happening if you use my camera file with the 6.5 FOV load up TOTAN and you'll see a shadow across half the table. when its happening. But when its not there's no shadow(shadow comes from the rooms overhead lights actually)the games performance increases quite abit.

mpad · Feb 14, 2016

hmmm... no luck.
tried every combination, all effects off, both in driver or in the TPA config. no effect. still get the stutter.
the fps counter sometimes goes to 59 or 61, but nor real fps drop. more of a timing issue I guess. same is when I test without the mod, the fps counter sometimes shows 59 as well, but no stutter this time.

strangely when I alt+tab the mod, everything is smooth, so it has to do somthing with window priority. damn windows.

Locksley · Feb 14, 2016

Yeah... A while ago I came back to play TPA and it was behaving strange.
In my case fiddling with the V-sync unscrambled my stuttering.
1. Try setting 'Prefered refresh rate' to Maximum, if that doesn't help set it to Application controlled.
2. Change V-sync to Application controlled, switch to Force On if it is still stuttering - combination of 1 and 2
3. Check that you haven't lost your 'Pre rendered frames', should be 1.

Good luck!

mpad · Feb 15, 2016

Locksley said:
Yeah... A while ago I came back to play TPA and it was behaving strange.
In my case fiddling with the V-sync unscrambled my stuttering.
1. Try setting 'Prefered refresh rate' to Maximum, if that doesn't help set it to Application controlled.
2. Change V-sync to Application controlled, switch to Force On if it is still stuttering - combination of 1 and 2
3. Check that you haven't lost your 'Pre rendered frames', should be 1.

Good luck!

hey, I too have the feeling it is some kind of sync problem between the two displays. what really bugs me is that after alt+tab everything is smooth, but of course all messed up in terms of aspect ratio. the rendering effort should be the same, so there is something fishy going on.

to your suggestions:
1) and 2) I don't have this kind of settings in the nvidia control panel. only v-sync settings are: app controlled, on, off, adaptive, adaptive half - I can't set a desired refresh rate or sth. I turned it on, off, app controlled ... no luck.
3) pre rendered frames is set to 1 since day one.

... strangely tunrnig v-sync to off never had any impact on the fps counter in TPA. always 60. is there another way to force this?

EDIT: I just had the idea that there is the option to select nvidia 3d setting for the PBAFreeCamMod.exe
does it do some sort of rendering job for the backglass and therefore needs the same v-sync setting as PinballArcade11.exe?
if yes, same for other settings (aa, anisotropy etc.)?
does this make any sense?

mpad · Feb 15, 2016

I found another setting: Multi-display/Mixed-GPU Acceleration. It should only affect open GL, but it seems to help a little.
I set this to "Multiple Display Performance Mode" and V-sync to app controlled. this is playable, but some stutter is still left.

one table where I can reproduce the stutter is XENEON: after plunger lane, when the ball enters the table and bounces from left to right in the top arc, I get stutter when using the mod. without the mod it is smooth as silk.

Robert Misner · Feb 15, 2016

well if that affects it try making sure triple buffer is enabled too think its right beside vsync. i would set the same settings for pbafreecammod.exe as you do for pinballarcade11.exe but not sure if it will help
I've only ever used the mod on windows 8 and up myself. But I've never noticed the mod causing stuttering.

mpad · Feb 16, 2016

Aaaah! no triple buffer, the worst enemy of virtual pinball

I want to avoid that, because I don't want to increase latency. It could be your pressed that button and have to wait for the two buffered frames for around 32 ms to show the result on screen. No go

Vsync is a compromise already, but I can't stand the tearing without it. FreeSync or gsync would be awesome, but that won't happen for any cabinet playfield TV soon.

I may really upgrade to win8.1. Maybe it is better suited for multiple screens.
But I hate that some hours could be wasted by this upgrade...

Robert Misner · Feb 16, 2016

triple buffer with no vsync, 1 max render frame buffer if i recall played pretty good.

i'd take the windows 10 free update over 8.1 myself honestly.. in for a penny in for a pound

Markus · Feb 16, 2016

mpad said:
hey you guys. Ithink I have the stutter problem. Don't know if I didn't notice before or if I accidentially changed something.
I have win 7 64, 2 displays, aero activated and all. I know what I am doing with a PC. GPU load is 30% at max., so no performance issue.

generally the game is smooth and fast, but with the mod sometimes it stutters or the ball hangs for a split second. this is a no go for pinball.

without running the free cam mod or when I alt+tab after the game is loaded it is super smooth perfect (window size and allignment is not correct), but when the mod runs as intentioned I get stutter.

any suggestions?
does this go away with win8.1 or 10 (I could upgrade)?

thanks

Hi,
I had a simillar stutter problem.
When running without the mod, everything was smooth, but when using the mod I had massive stutters occasionally. Like you, I had no framedrops and the CPU usage was only maybe 15 percent or less, the GFX Card is a relaxed GTX 960 (and even tried with GTX 970).
I know you have a 2 screen setup but maybe this can help you or anyone else nevertheless.

My solution was to unplug the DMD Screen from the GFX card, and use instead the onboard VGA/DVI connector from the Mainboard (for the DMD Screen/Monitor). This solved all my stutter problems, and the freecamera mod works like a charm now. Gameplay is super smooth and fast and without a single stutter.

The strange thing was, that I had no problems playing VP with the old setup (DMD Screen connected to the GFX Card).

What you also could try is to set the Nvidia Physx settings from "auto" to "CPU" and see if this helps.

mpad · Feb 16, 2016

Interesting. No problems with VP / unit3d / fx2 either. I think it is the approach with the overlapping window rendering that causes this. Maybe something nvidia specific. This would also explain that when pressing alt+tab = (vertical size is fit to the screen, no overlapping, black border left and right) everything is smooth.

I think I have an onboard Intel HD output, but I completely disabled it. Will check it out.
Also will try the physx setting. You never know.

Robert Misner · Feb 17, 2016

just upgraded pc last night from ati 6990 to GTX 970 on my gaming rig(so much for waiting to get ready for VR)and I think i'm seeing the microstuttering your talking about now.( YAH!

)
I'll see if I can't work out something.

Discussion thread about the FreeCamera Mod

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