Questions Answered - FarSight

Thanks for the answers, hope we get some questions to Bobby King/Farsight periodically on blahcade, like the good old days!

invitro said:

I'm no image techie, but I'm curious: is it required that photographed images be blurry? I ask because I think I've seen a few photos of pinball playfields that aren't blurry.
...
The VP playfields I've seen all look horrible. And I do mean all. I haven't played VP in a few years thanks to TPA, but I often search for high-quality pics of pinball playfields. VP ones always come up in those searches, and always look like utter crap compared to the photos of real machines.

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You're always welcome over at VP Forums, etc., invitro (and all). VP10 has been a major step forward for us. Give it a whirl! As with here, a great bunch of dudes on the forum.

invitro said:

The main way it's not accurate is that it wildly overstates the importance of VR. Videotape was used by almost literally everyone, and would still be today if other techs hadn't superceded it. VR will probably be used by only a tiny fraction* of people even at its peak. Lots of people who have used VR just plain don't like it, don't think it's fun, don't see any use for it. No one said videotape wasn't fun, or the idea of recording and playing video was useless; the idea of someone saying "I don't have any use for recording and playing video" is almost laughable.

*I know that some techevangelists claim that at some point in the near future, everyone will be using VR every day. Well, maybe, but maybe we'll be getting around in flying cars or jetpacks in the near future, too.

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what a ridiculous straw man to pull out of an orifice.
You ignored the point that BETA VCR was a platform war of competing platform hardware.

"Lots of people" ...who? is this like that "Theres dozens of us meme?"
Coverage of VR shows the vast majority of people that use VR and don't just talk about VR, find it to be an amazing and compeling experience. I've never met anyone thats tried it that dislikes it. I've heard of Publisher talking heads say they don't like it purely from a how can I maximize profits standpoint..not from the enjoyment of the tech tho. I've heard concerns from filmmakers unsure how to use the tech to tell compelling stories..again not about the user experience.

I was around when BETA and VCR's came out and to suggest VR can't or won't have a comparable impact is the worst kind of armchair crystal ball gazing.Ironically people love to quote money as a reason not to get VR, but that 1250 dollar Betamax in the late 70's would cost about 4100 dollars today.Your wildly understating the potential importance of VR
geez.

Every time I see someone using VR, I end up thinking about Lister with his VR headset and groinal attachment, and that jailbait ballgirl in the tennis game.
Any other 'Red Dwarf' fans?

I ain't putting no damned headset on personally.

Ben Logan said:

Norman,

The biggest problem with TPA sound is the incredibly low bit-rate. Why so crunchy and compressed? Are we that worried about table download size?

Second biggest problem is the recycled mechanical sounds.

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[MENTION=5468]Ben Logan[/MENTION] - I use a Zoom H2. If you look at the tables chronologically you will see that the the early tables used a great deal more shared mechanicals than the current tables. Even though there is still some shared mech in Pinball Arcade, years ago we began making proprietary mechanicals for every table. This includes VUKs, scoop ejects, unique toys and in many cases drop targets. Some of those early tables could use some upgrading. Harley Davidson is one of the tables that is woefully lacking in mechanical audio. This table will be getting some more mech in the next Pinball Arcade update. The chances that all the mechanicals in every Pinball Arcade table will be updated is probably not in the cards. It is to be noted though that with all the new Stern Pinball Arcade tables all mechanical audio is recorded from the table. No mechanicals will be shared.

The resolution of the mobile audio is something that we all agree needs to be addressed. I can safely say that by February next year or possibly sooner. This issue will be solved.

Robert Misner said:

what a ridiculous straw man to pull out of an orifice.
You ignored the point that BETA VCR was a platform war of competing platform hardware.

"Lots of people" ...who? is this like that "Theres dozens of us meme?"
Coverage of VR shows the vast majority of people that use VR and don't just talk about VR, find it to be an amazing and compeling experience. I've never met anyone thats tried it that dislikes it. I've heard of Publisher talking heads say they don't like it purely from a how can I maximize profits standpoint..not from the enjoyment of the tech tho. I've heard concerns from filmmakers unsure how to use the tech to tell compelling stories..again not about the user experience.

I was around when BETA and VCR's came out and to suggest VR can't or won't have a comparable impact is the worst kind of armchair crystal ball gazing.Ironically people love to quote money as a reason not to get VR, but that 1250 dollar Betamax in the late 70's would cost about 4100 dollars today.Your wildly understating the potential importance of VR
geez.

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I don't know man...I think you may be wildly overstating the potential importance of VR. I doubt it will go any better than 3D has...

Norman said:

[MENTION=5468]Ben Logan[/MENTION] - I use a Zoom H2. If you look at the tables chronologically you will see that the the early tables used a great deal more shared mechanicals than the current tables. Even though there is still some shared mech in Pinball Arcade, years ago we began making proprietary mechanicals for every table. This includes VUKs, scoop ejects, unique toys and in many cases drop targets. Some of those early tables could use some upgrading. Harley Davidson is one of the tables that is woefully lacking in mechanical audio. This table will be getting some more mech in the next Pinball Arcade update. The chances that all the mechanicals in every Pinball Arcade table will be updated is probably not in the cards. It is to be noted though that with all the new Stern Pinball Arcade tables all mechanical audio is recorded from the table. No mechanicals will be shared.

The resolution of the mobile audio is something that we all agree needs to be addressed. I can safely say that by February next year or possibly sooner. This issue will be solved.

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Great response, Norman! Glad to hear you guys are focusing on improving sound. Super news. What a cool job you have. Congrats.

If I may make one more suggestion: The "pink" sound that occurs when the ball hits a metal object like a side rail or inlane guide is one of the biggest offenders. It's so lacking in any bass energy, it just screams "cheap!" Like the whole game is made of pot-metal. Aside from flipper sounds, this is the most frequently occurring sound in TPA (maybe I should aim better!). The real pinball machines in my garage don't make anything like this sound in real life. Could this sound be improved?

Don't forget the sound of the ball rolling on the table, which needs to be much louder imho...

Zevious Zoquis said:

Don't forget the sound of the ball rolling on the table, which needs to be much louder imho...

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Yes!

Zevious Zoquis said:

I don't know man...I think you may be wildly overstating the potential importance of VR. I doubt it will go any better than 3D has...

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hmmm overstating the potential? not at all , really the impact on education,gaming,entertainment and virtual tourism can't be overstated . But can it fail to live up to its potential and not be game changer it should be ..sure, that's still possible but all indications are that isn't the case. I would suggest its momentum is already doing better then home 3d ever did. The biggest benefit from 3d was better quality tv's as a side effect due to 3d's hardware requirements.

Ben you are right on about the sound

I think the Beta vs VHS argument is more about the fact that certain VR tech right now is getting software that other VR tech isn't. The Playstation VR is going to have lots of exclusives, just as VR for PC will have games the Playstation won't. So while the analogy might not be correct, I think the sentiment is, and that is you don't want to buy the wrong VR setup today only to find later on a different headset became the standard and had the most content.

I tried Oculus a few years back when my friend had an early build. I wear glasses, and didn't like how it fit over them. Be nice if they had a diopter so you could adjust the focus to your naked eye even without wearing glasses. I also didn't like the resolution, it had that screen door effect. I'm sure that's been improved, but still. The rig wore my neck out after a while, and I did experience some moments of nausea. So count me as someone who has tried it and disliked it. Yes, I could see the potential, but I don't think it's for me other than as a novelty.

We just mentioned the ball rolling sound in our podcast. Our problem with it is there is no variation to it regardless of ball speed or direction. What I wish, and I've had this conversation with Norman before, is that while the ROM sounds are in mono, the mechanical sounds be in stereo. It was explained to me why this isn't a feature, but I still think it'd be cool.

Flipperdeflip said:

Make that four months.
"late this fall" = late December


I see a lot of maybes.
Why would they still need to do Kickstarters after all these years and having Stern as a partner?

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A LOTR KS could be succesful from the TPA fan's viewpoint because of the popularity of the table, that we can probably agree on, even with some KS fatigue voiced here. The issue with Stern I think is as follows: even with their partnership, it seems SPA will cover the newer tables for which Stern itself still has active licenses. Although they made LOTR in 2003, they don't have the license anymore and would have to pay again for it. So it's a matter of who will want to pay, Farsight and/or Stern. I guess that will lead to a KS, as has been the case for earlier tables like STTNG, T2, TAF etc.

shutyertrap said:

I think the Beta vs VHS argument is more about the fact that certain VR tech right now is getting software that other VR tech isn't. The Playstation VR is going to have lots of exclusives, just as VR for PC will have games the Playstation won't. So while the analogy might not be correct, I think the sentiment is, and that is you don't want to buy the wrong VR setup today only to find later on a different headset became the standard and had the most content.

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Console exclusivity exists outside of the VR sphere and shouldn't be considered a factor when considering a PC VR solution tho..again the PC is the computing platform its already been defined..not mac, not linux, windows PC's are the platform. I can run almost all the oculus store software i buy on home on my Vive using a wrapper cuz the headset functions the same. The problem is DRM and updates break usability so buying stuff on oculus home is very risky. Oculus's intent is to turn things into a walled garden like iTunes. However VR software on Steam work with Razor's headset, HTC's headset and Occulus's headset, plus all the cheap china headsets. Their storefront already exists and has more features and support.

Perhaps abetter analogy would be music services , Music is digital and accessible on mobile but its an on going battle who you buy or rent your music from.

shutyertrap said:

I tried Oculus a few years back when my friend had an early build. I wear glasses, and didn't like how it fit over them. Be nice if they had a diopter so you could adjust the focus to your naked eye even without wearing glasses. I also didn't like the resolution, it had that screen door effect. I'm sure that's been improved, but still. The rig wore my neck out after a while, and I did experience some moments of nausea. So count me as someone who has tried it and disliked it. Yes, I could see the potential, but I don't think it's for me other than as a novelty.

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The difference from the early DK1's to retail products are really significant, don't let an early developers kit jankiness shape your perception, go try a Vive if its being demoed near you ask to play the lab and budget cuts (you can wear glasses with the Vive). Resolution is about double what the DK1 was, using Supersampling with a 1080 improves visual fidelity significantly, the Default 90hz refresh is much higher then the dk1 which was 60hz i believe, you shouldn't feel any nausea anymore due to hardware just avoid any software with artificial locomotion that isn't teleporting at this point. The headsets are way more comfortable now.

anyways this really is a conversation for a different thread sorry for the derailing just wanted to respond.

Pinball in VR with your hands on a pinball cabinet controller ,flipper buttons and analog nudging is an amazing experience, PinballFX2's Mars table ..one I never enjoyed that much for example is a much more compelling experience when its a full cabinet experience.Adams Family,Tales from the Crypt and Lord of the Rings on Futurepinball with BAM VR is amazing even with the janky flipper mechanics..The presence is only second to the real thing..

Robert Misner said:

Pinball in VR with your hands on a pinball cabinet controller ,flipper buttons and analog nudging is an amazing experience, PinballFX2's Mars table ..one I never enjoyed that much for example is a much more compelling experience when its a full cabinet experience.Adams Family,Tales from the Crypt and Lord of the Rings on Futurepinball with BAM VR is amazing even with the janky flipper mechanics..The presence is only second to the real thing..

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I have no doubt it's a very cool experience. The problem is that peripheral devices are traditionally an incredibly "tough sell" on consoles. In this case, to get that awesome experience you need a VR headset and a pinball cab controller. In the end, I'm betting a tiny percentage of console owners will splurge for a VR headset, and an even smaller number will have a cabinet controller. It will be a smaller market than FF wheels currently are on consoles - and they've been about the most successful peripheral add-on. I'm a pretty avid gamer and have in the past purchased some swishy extra devices (had a MAS stick for the Dreamcast for a time) and even I have almost zero interest in VR.

Mike Lindsey said:

@Snorzel: Will you guys please give Black Knight a proper makeover?

Yes. We don't have an ETA but we are going to do this.

@Pinballwiz45b: ROM Emulation on Black Knight, Gorgar, Firepower, Black Hole?

We will emulate tables that need it at some point.

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Will Black Knight get a Pro Version (operator settings) when it's eventually Rom Emulated?

It'd be a tragedy if we couldn't change the settings so that the horseshoe was required to light locks, and tweak down the drop target time outs.
Please Farsight - It's the last thing I'll ever ask for.

Baron Rubik said:

It's the last thing I'll ever ask for.

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That's what she said.

Hi Norman,

Any chance we might get some more flipper sounds?

Many thanks

shutyertrap said:

No, this should not be on us to pay for. People on this forum always jump right to "I'd pay to fix get that fixed" which is a horrible trend to suggest by any consumer. Too many companies have abused this thinking, putting out a product incomplete only to charge for it later. FarSight continues to sell full seasons of 1&2 to new users all the time. Remastering should be done gratis to correct for how it should have been done all along.

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+1 Exactly and with updated physics

Mclong said:

+1 Exactly and with updated physics

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I have bought five seasons of this game based on the physics provided, so no, I do not expect new physics in the game. I do expect a relatively bug-free program (no showstoppers, maybe a nagging little thing here and there) for my coin, however, and it's a damn "far sight" from being there!