Zen Pinball FX3 Williams Pinball Volume One

FarSight_Matt · Sep 8, 2018

We probably got in trouble for that haha

shutyertrap · Sep 8, 2018

So how come Whoa Nellie is fine then? That thing has way more double entendres than Elvira, especially visually. And Xenon was fine too, which initially that was one of the ‘pinball after dark’ listed tables. Wonder if Bally’s Playboy would be an issue if for no other reason than the brand.

Blkthorne · Sep 8, 2018

Didn't Farsight change their rating for TPA from E-10 to T??, kind of thought around season 8 or so.

EldarOfSuburbia · Sep 8, 2018

Blkthorne said:
Didn't Farsight change their rating for TPA from E-10 to T??, kind of thought around season 8 or so.

They did, definitely for Starship Troopers or maybe even for Dracula.

Citizen · Sep 8, 2018

The ESRB site says E10+ for TPA and T for SPA. Doesn't make much sense.

Can individual DLC releases get their own ratings?

Nomorestalker · Sep 8, 2018

That need for censored roms really put a damper on the project. Since they are running them from roms they should just have the ability to replace the roms like VP does.

Edit: I guess that would just be a benefit for PC users

dmil666 · Sep 8, 2018

Jeff Strong said:
What do you guys think about the tweaks? I’m getting ready to download the update.

As a non-wizard level player, I like the flipper tweaks in arcade mode pretty much. It's a lot easier to get the ball under control, although maybe just a teeny bit too easy. The railroads to the center loop are a bit too dialed in, to where it can be hard to get the ball away from them on the fly. Catching the ball gives you a better chance of shooting around it, but I don't want to catch the ball for every shot. I like how the ball behaves everywhere else on the table. The consistency of the ball launch doesn't bug me that much, but it wouldn't hurt to randomize it a bit.
I played the tournament mode for a bit and I like it too, not as easy to control the ball as arcade mode, but then it isn't supposed to be. The railroads aren't as pronounced, and the ball action on the rest of the table is very good.
The lighting of the table is quite nice. I lighten it up just a touch with gamma so I can see what in the heck I'm doing. Bite me, I'm old.

I like the changes. Everything seems to be moving in the right direction.

shogun00 · Sep 8, 2018

shutyertrap said:
Same, tried it myself. I did a full bore push and got the ball a half inch up from the flipper, and of course it tilted. And that was on Eight Ball Deluxe which undoubtedly is set to a lower rake than any DMD machine. Kind of action we're seeing with these nudges (and the same could be said for TPA) is that of someone physically moving the machine an inch or so side to side or to the front with every single hard nudge. These machines aren't light, and even on machines that offer warning, that's usually good for a slam tilt.

Did you lower the tilt bobber to the lowest position? I was able to pull off multiple hard nudges with my Rollergames without tilting the table. Just a single title warning. Granted the ball only went up an inch and that's with fresh wax and new rubbers.

shutyertrap · Sep 8, 2018

shogun00 said:
Did you lower the tilt bobber to the lowest position? I was able to pull off multiple hard nudges with my Rollergames without tilting the table. Just a single title warning. Granted the ball only went up an inch and that's with fresh wax and new rubbers.

How dare you taunt me with your Rollergames! I have not adjusted my tilt bob at all, but there is no warning on Eight Ball Deluxe either. My rubber is now about a year old, same as the wax.

blindpeser · Sep 8, 2018

Xanija said:
From the Facebook Q&A:

...

VR: The market is not very big. If Zen sees demand, it might happen. But it's not an easy decision. It's a big undertaking
...

Could anybody please explain this for me?

- in 2014 someone released a free tool (PinballVRcade) that made TPA tables playable in VR for the Oculus DK2
- Magic Pixel released a DLC on steam that allows to play all their tables in VR
- Rafal (Ravarcade) released the magnificant BAM software for Future Pinball that allows to play all Future Pinball tables in VR

When I watched the Zen Williams videos I thought: Amazing! Everything is there: high resolution, tables and room in 3D, physics that would work in VR. So a conversion to VR should be easy. One additional tool and all tables should be probably playable in VR. Of course I and others would pay extra for the VR version.

So please, could anybody let me know why this should be a big undertaking? I see that Zen put a lot of effort and love into the other 12 tables they released in VR so far. We dont need extra gimmicks in the game room for the Williams/Bally tables. Please provide us 1:1 conversions and all of us VR heads would be more than happy. Thank you!

Xanija · Sep 8, 2018

Citizen said:
We live in an era where Night Trap is on a Nintendo system with a T rating. Most pinball uncensored modes would probably rate an E10+ right now, which is FX3's current rating (not E10).

There is no E10, it's correctly E10+

Xanija · Sep 8, 2018

blindpeser said:
So please, could anybody let me know why this should be a big undertaking?

I am not a developer. This comes from Mel, and I'm 100% sure, if it was an easy job with not a lot to do, they would do it right away, why wouldn't they?

I can only imagine they have quite high standards when releasing tables for VR, as they have for their product in general.

There must be enough demand to justify the development cost, and as Mel pointed out, there are just not enough VR headsets out there to call it a mainstream market. Considering that pinball is not a mainstream product in itself, you can imagine the sales for VR are probably not exactly huge.

blindpeser · Sep 8, 2018

Xanija said:
I am not a developer. This comes from Mel, and I'm 100% sure, if it was an easy job with not a lot to do, they would do it right away, why wouldn't they?

I can only imagine they have quite high standards when releasing tables for VR, as they have for their product in general.

There must be enough demand to justify the development cost, and as Mel pointed out, there are just not enough VR headsets out there to call it a mainstream market. Considering that pinball is not a mainstream product in itself, you can imagine the sales for VR are probably not exactly huge.

You are right, their standards for the VR products are really high. If there are no more VR tables because of the high standards and high costs for the production, please give us light versions: tables, one wall and the floor. Just as we did it on FP for a while. That would be perfectly fine as long as the machine looks nice and the physics are great.

Hinph · Sep 8, 2018

Excited to find out what they mean when they say they haven't revealed the full scope of what they're doing... any speculation?

karussellbremser · Sep 8, 2018

As great as this announcement is, I'm really bummed that they are planning on making "family-friendly" versions of some tables. This is supposed to be a simulation, and here they are going to worsen the experience and deviating from the original tables because of the ESRB rating. What makes it even worse is the fact that probably 99% of the target audience for the Williams tables are older than 13 years and thus old enough for 'T' rated games.

As I read it, it is totally possible to assign an individual ESRB rating to individual DLC. So they could just mark all the games that have more adult content with a T rating, and all those kids between 10 and 12 that are old enough to play E10+ but not old enough for T can enjoy all the other games. Otherwise, this is just a collective punishment to all the adult players.

I really hope that they are going to change their plans on this subject, as this really kills a good part of my enthusiasm for this project.

Xanija · Sep 8, 2018

It's a business decision to which rating they want to go with. But E10+ doesn't seem to make much sense in my opinion and I would really not like the games being censored. A T-Rating would be 13 and up. If this solves the problem, I wouldn't see a reason not to rate it T. How many players under 13 would pinball have really?

TFHFony · Sep 8, 2018

OMG...
I just installed the beta on my laptop. Allthough I could only play it on 1280x720 due to the crappy AMD Readon HD 7730M, it looked and felt great.
I own every talbe in TPA, SPA & ZP2 & FX3 on my PS4, and it seems I will be buying the TPA tables again on ZEN. I love the new Physics Engine.

Now will this mean that this ZEN section will move to a new (and larger) section on this board as well?

mystman12 · Sep 8, 2018

dmil666 said:
The railroads to the center loop are a bit too dialed in, to where it can be hard to get the ball away from them on the fly.

Are there railroads? I was under the impression that this physics engine didn't have anything like that.

wolfson · Sep 8, 2018

Xanija said:
It's a business decision to which rating they want to go with. But E10+ doesn't seem to make much sense in my opinion and I would really not like the games being censored. A T-Rating would be 13 and up. If this solves the problem, I wouldn't see a reason not to rate it T. How many players under 13 would pinball have really?

Xanija , you might be surprised how many youngsters play Zen tables , remember Star Wars and Marvel Comics . old farts like me love the TPA original tables , but I also love Zen tables because they are fantasy tables .

CycOd3liC · Sep 8, 2018

shutyertrap said:
There certainly is the question of whether people will want to buy the tables again. All I say is play the demo for 30 seconds and then tell me your answer. Or play Fish Tales for a good bit, then hop over to TPA and try it there again. I think the decision will be fairly easy. Or there's always waiting a while for a Steam winter or summer sale.

Do you remember playing the early build of FT on TPA? The shots felt good and very similar to how it felt IRL, but then it was updated and never felt right after that. First play of FT on PFX3 and I was blown away on how good it felt. I could make my shots with a bit more consistency. Not sure if that's everyone's experience but it just feels right now.

Zen Pinball FX3 Williams Pinball Volume One

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