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  Click here to go to the first FarSight post in this thread.   Thread: Zen Studios alters classic pinball art to protect family-friendly rating

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    Zen Studios alters classic pinball art to protect family-friendly rating

    Zen Studios alters classic pinball art to protect family-friendly rating

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/...r-esrb-rating/

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    "I don't want to minimize their importance, but I do believe it's a very vocal minority [complaining] because our sales for our first few days are through the roof, off the chart," he said." - Kirk

    Can 100% believe its a vocal minority. It's hard for me to fathom some of the outlandish complaints about the missing or retouched artwork.


    But also great to hear it sold well. Hopefully many more tables to come.

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    Senior Member Blkthorne's Avatar
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    I certainly understand the reason for the complaints but I also understand the problems that Zen is facing as well, I'm very happy to be playing the steam version which has the censorship turned off other than the few cover ups/changes on Fish Tales with it as a free table for everyone and some references to liquor/smoking/gambling on other tables. I am worried how tables like the two Elvira ones would look since the sexual innuendo is a big part of what makes Elvira.....well Elvira or tables like Gorgar with a bikini clad female on the playfield and BG. It does seem kind of funny seeing the same 3-5 people in the steam forums for the censorship post, think they are on page 32 atm with 400+ posts.
    Last edited by Blkthorne; 10-12-2018 at 05:23 PM.

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    This is pretty lame. And I'm guessing this means the two Elvira tables aren't going to come over.
    Farsight ID: Strike3Count

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    Moderator Jeff Strong's Avatar
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    I guess I never realized that a girl in a bikini was so taboo nowadays. It's something that's been perfectly acceptable at every public beach since like the 60's.

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    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    It was very disappointing to me personally but I bought the pack (3 times) anyway and I'm certainly not going to hound them about it.

    I do hope some day there will be some sort of viable workaround. I'd gladly pay for an alternate uncensored Fish Tales as an individual table DLC with an updated EULA agreeing to the content, for example.

    I just have to wonder if this isn't all a means to an end to keep Disney happy, though. Because even Nintendo has stopped being so uptight these days, and I have to cry foul on the claim that Zen was worried about FT and MM hurting their image when they have a Walking Dead table. Just saying.

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    FarSight Employee FarSight_Matt's Avatar
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    "Close, but no cigar."
    Hah.

    This whole thing is a story about directing your anger appropriately. Not at Zen, not at the ESRB, but towards the people and organisations that the ESRB is protecting us from.
    Last edited by FarSight_Matt; 10-12-2018 at 05:29 PM.

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    Moderator Jeff Strong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarSight_Matt View Post
    "Close, but no cigar."
    Hah.

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    Senior Member Blkthorne's Avatar
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    The only thing I can see them doing is making a separate application from pinball fx3 with only the Williams' license and the T rating but would they bother for the "vocal minority" for it??

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    The cow in MM survived the edit though.

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    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    I'm beginning to wonder how much of this is related to the ESRB rating? And how much of this is related to Disney?

    Disney is well known for being censorship happy and Zen has a partnership with them for the Marvel and Star Wars tables. Ticking them off could prevent future negotiations (such as Indiana Jones) from going through.
    Last edited by shogun00; 10-12-2018 at 09:05 PM.

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    first off. I don't agree with censorship. They tricked me into buying this pack and it sounds like they will continue doing this and it stops for me.
    I might be a minority but i will speak with my wallet if things don't get fixed. So the tables find a new home then get butchered.

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    Moderator Jeff Strong's Avatar
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    I have to wonder how many people would even notice the changes if they hadn't been pointed out

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    Senior Member lio's Avatar
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    Exactly. The changes are very small and unless you know what to look for hard to spot.
    I still think they should not have been neccessary in this day and age but they certainly don't ruin the experience.

    I think as far as tabacco and alcohol goes the changes were required to keep the rating but I can't imagine the mermaid would have had to be edited - or the blood on the MM sword... they probably changed more than they needed to to be extra safe.

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    Senior Member wolfson's Avatar
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    better to be safe than sorry !!! I curse and swear like a trooper but , this is a kids rated video game , and I don`t have a problem with any restrictions . just enjoy what a great game we have now. and for me my love for fantasy and real tables is in one place !!!

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    If gambling themes are out that's gonna cut down on table selection--especially the older stuff--quite a bit, dang.

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    The outrage and boycotting notion proposed by some is a little much but without this vocal minority would we have got non-family mode versions on Steam? I am therefore thankful for their efforts.

    Zen also need to understand that this may be wider than they seem initially aware. I bought the pack because I recognise their technical efforts; the product is good. However, I think the level of censorship is laughable and it really paints a negative light on this company. I just haven't harassed them in forums about it. Maybe I should be based on their comments?

    Considering Zen planned the aquisition of the Williams licence and even stated that Fx3 was built from the beginning to house these tables I am disappointed in their foresight. This decision will impact future table choices and their comments about the editing of championship pub sounds gameplay affecting, which is distressing.

    They have Aliens, Doom, The Walking Dead and Archer tables. Sorry, who is their audience?
    Last edited by Klopek; 10-13-2018 at 03:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarSight_Matt View Post
    "Close, but no cigar."
    Hah.

    This whole thing is a story about directing your anger appropriately. Not at Zen, not at the ESRB, but towards the people and organisations that the ESRB is protecting us from.
    Agreed.
    Who says you can't take it with you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blkthorne View Post
    The only thing I can see them doing is making a separate application from pinball fx3 with only the Williams' license and the T rating but would they bother for the "vocal minority" for it??
    FX3 After Dark!

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    Senior Member rehtroboi40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lio View Post
    Exactly. The changes are very small and unless you know what to look for hard to spot.
    I still think they should not have been neccessary in this day and age but they certainly don't ruin the experience.

    I think as far as tabacco and alcohol goes the changes were required to keep the rating but I can't imagine the mermaid would have had to be edited - or the blood on the MM sword... they probably changed more than they needed to to be extra safe.
    So, this pretty much snuffs out Champion's Pub. That saloon wasn't exactly famous for soda.

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    Moderator Jeff Strong's Avatar
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    Girls in bikinis and video games have always gone hand in hand

    It’s kind of funny that the some of the industry is more prudish about this now than nearly 40 years ago.

    Not that big of a deal to me, but just find it a bit interesting that it’s something that needs censored now.
    Last edited by Jeff Strong; 10-13-2018 at 06:17 AM.

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    I see where gottlieb got their ideas for their premiere backglasses

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    In a pm to shutyertrap I made the point of you see women/girls in bikini's at swimming pools and beaches and we have this mess with the ERSB ratings for tables from the 70's-90's. Kids playing/played Mortal Kombat, GTA, list any FPS out there and Zen is stuck on pinball tables for ratings???? Plus South Park was another license Zen had at one point and that somehow made it fine with Disney and the ERSB??

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    I hate the censorship in the William's pinball. The whole thing is just ridiculous. Anyways how many 10 year olds play Williams pinball? And why is there no censorship on PC? Censoring an animation in MM that shows a guy climbing up the ladder and kissing a girl on the cheek. Thats just preposterous.

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder how much of this is related to the ESRB rating? And how much of this is related to Disney?

    Disney is well known for being censorship happy and Zen has a partnership with them for the Marvel and Star Wars tables. Ticking them off could prevent future negotiations (such as Indiana Jones) from going through.
    2 seasons ago I was working on a Disney kids TV show. Any and all cleavage was forbidden, which made filming our first episode of the season a task as it was set in a water park. So all the women had to wear either rash guard style shirts or tankinis. Our actress who played the mom, Cerina Vincent (look her up, quite stunning) had a swim suit that showed just the tiniest of cleavage and the solution was to put a cover-up blouse on her. I've heard this conversation many times elsewhere, and I agree it borders on body shaming simply for having curves. God forbid men from taking responsibility for perving out and instead let's just blame women for having bodies that cause 'feelings'.

    I said it in my Twitter post about the article, I'm not so concerned with the censorship as I am with the removal of modes, as mentioned would have to be done for bits featuring gambling. I'd rather the table just not get made then, wait until a solution arises that the unaltered version could be put out. In trying to hide the bits that might offend, I feel instead a giant spotlight is shined on what is missing. I mean what would even be left of Jack*Bot? It'd just be Pin*Bot! The only art issue I would hate to see is with Elvira, as the look and attitude is exactly what makes the character. Again, I'd rather they just not make it. There are a ton of tables to choose from that don't need editing, do those.
    I'm just sayin'

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