Williams Pinball App Discussion

Craig Grannell · Feb 28, 2019

Yeah, the free ticket pack is 150 on iOS, and actually gives you 150 tickets now (as opposed to 50). I remain dumfounded how anyone got these tables to four stars, unless the beta had radically different unlock speeds.

MadScience2006 · Feb 28, 2019

Craig Grannell said:
I remain dumfounded how anyone got these tables to four stars, unless the beta had radically different unlock speeds.

Irregardless of the unlock speeds/difficulty/ease, none of your progress in the beta was carried over to the release version (at least on iOS). Whatever progress that was earned on the beta had to be re-earned from a clean slate with the release version.

Some of the players here are just remarkable players...I’m not one.

Cloda · Feb 28, 2019

MadScience2006 said:
Irregardless of the unlock speeds/difficulty/ease, none of your progress in the beta was carried over to the release version (at least on iOS). Whatever progress that was earned on the beta had to be re-earned from a clean slate with the release version.

Some of the players here are just remarkable players...I’m not one.

I'm still on the Beta on Android but it just updated me to the latest version. I'm afraid to opt out of the Beta as I don't want to start over again. Everything seem to be working as it should. Only thing I didn't see after the update now was the one-time offer to purchase all the tables. Don't know if that has something to do with me still being on the Beta?

Anyway, would appreciate if anybody can warn me if I'm waisting my time by still being on the Beta and that I'm going to lose everything at some point.

Xanija · Feb 28, 2019

Being in the beta is not an entirely different app on Android. You just could get to see some changes which other players don't, as they only happen in the beta branch.

The Google pages say,it is possible to lose progress when opting out of a beta, though.

I'm still opt-in and the app shows (Beta) for me. But I did get the limited time offer.

Cloda · Feb 28, 2019

Xanija said:
Being in the beta is not an entirely different app on Android. You just could get to see some changes which other players don't, as they only happen in the beta branch.

The Google pages say,it is possible to lose progress when opting out of a beta, though.

I'm still opt-in and the app show (Beta) for me. But I did get the limited time offer.

Thanks for explaining. I'll keep an eye out for the limited time offer.

Xanija · Feb 28, 2019

If it hasn't appeared yet, it's best to contact Zen and ask them to activate it for you.

MBeeching · Feb 28, 2019

MadScience2006 said:
Irregardless of the unlock speeds/difficulty/ease, none of your progress in the beta was carried over to the release version (at least on iOS). Whatever progress that was earned on the beta had to be re-earned from a clean slate with the release version.

Some of the players here are just remarkable players...I’m not one.

I'm slightly unclear whether iOS users now need 50 parts / 3000 tickets for their Grade 3 promotions. (Apparently Shutyertrap only needed 20 parts for Grade 4 a couple of weeks ago).

On Android there's no way to grind tables to Grade 4, it's going to take months to earn the necessary table parts and Zen coins. I've been playing several hours most days and repeatedly refreshing the Basic challenges at 10-15 stars. Advanced challenges are useless for grind sessions as they cost 5 Zen coins to refresh and you need to save those for Grade 4 upgrades or feature unlocks. I'm currently level 34 so it takes an absolute age to earn any coins increasing my XP.

1adam12 · Feb 28, 2019

I'm curious as to how this will play out for Zen/Williams. Whereas TPA was pretty straightforward, Zen is using a very complicated system that will see a lot of grinders, and some mini purchases, but I doubt they'll have the table sales TPA did.

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EldarOfSuburbia · Feb 28, 2019

(Android) I had the offer a while back, but it's disappeared now. The update today added/updated the EULA, and also significantly lowered the rewards for winning in League Play.

Prior to the update I would get ~55/~80/~90 points for League Play wins, now it's dropped to something like ~15/~45/~75 with no apparent drop-off in the level requirements. So it's going to take a lot more time and tickets to get beyond Gold, let alone to Diamond; especially with the balanced scoring requirements now. The update also removed the scores from the top-left score comparison widget in League Play, which has improved performance considerably (on my tablet, it was playing smoothly - before with the scores constantly updating in the top-left, some tables had very poor frame rates in League Play).

Gorgias32 · Feb 28, 2019

A couple of points:

1. If Zen can get enough video views, they don't need to sell the tables outright - and in fact it may be more profitable for them in the long term if fewer people do the one-time purchase. Depends on how widely the app spreads and how many people feel it's worthwhile to watch videos. I can tell you that when the beta started I didn't think I would watch the videos, but I have ended up playing a ton of them (usually kick it off and put my phone down) to get the 50 ticket pack, or the video award card, or level 2 challenge. You really need to play the videos in order to get the tickets needed for upgrades.

2. Upgrading a table to two stars is the big one, since it gives you free play. Three stars basically just unlocks the enhanced graphics (which are pretty, but don't really add anything to the gameplay and can at times be distracting) and makes the table available for the level 3 daily challenge (which can be brutally difficult, but which does pay off with good awards). I have yet to upgrade a table to 4 stars, but that is the one that unlocks the pro physics and lets you play offline.

shutyertrap · Feb 28, 2019

Zen is still playing around with requirements, gathering data on different models that people play under. I don’t know if any iOS users are still playing with the easy requirements I had, but I know now some never had it to begin with. I’ll be curios to see what is required of me whenever the next pack comes to mobile.

As for people that are only seeing table parts for select tables, I’m wondering if this is a step Zen implemented so you actually make progress toward upgrades. As I maxed out tables, I stopped getting those parts and that was not the case in beta (which was extremely frustrating). This will become a very good thing for future users that come to the app when the game has double digit tables. A fantastic option Zen should implement is to let you either collect parts by your choice of packs, or having you select 3 tables and that’s what you earn for.

EldarOfSuburbia · Feb 28, 2019

shutyertrap said:
A fantastic option Zen should implement is to let you either collect parts by your choice of packs, or having you select 3 tables and that’s what you earn for.

I agree with this - at least have the ability to "favorite" one or more tables and you will be more likely to get part drops for these tables. (Words With Friends 2 does this with tile skins - not exactly the same boat, but it's the same principle.)

Nighthawk · Feb 28, 2019

I purchased the tables outright so I can save my Zen coins and tickets for when the next table pack comes out. I can still play some challenges every day but I don't have to feel bad about missing a few days here and there since I'm just banking for the future. I also wanted a few tables that I can play offline. I think the offline play is the main benefit of the 4 stars. It looks like it would take forever to get to 4 stars grinding especially with earning table parts randomly spread over 7 tables.

Tan Coul · Feb 28, 2019

FWIW, My prices on IOS are (and have been since installing) 700 tickets to unlock **, 3000 to unlock *** and 100 Zen to unlock ****. while Pro physics costs 150 Zen and the Bonus challenge 200 Zen. The adverts get me 100 tickets (and pressing the dismiss button takes me to the app store at least half the time...)

elcondor · Mar 1, 2019

EldarOfSuburbia said:
I agree with this - at least have the ability to "favorite" one or more tables and you will be more likely to get part drops for these tables. (Words With Friends 2 does this with tile skins - not exactly the same boat, but it's the same principle.)

It feels like at the moment there are three 'currencies' in the game (tickets, Zen Coins and parts), whereas normally these types of things have just 2. If the parts were not table specific, so the user could decide where to place them, while it would be better for the user I can see that it reduces the 'one more go' factor Zen seem to be going for. At some point though, the optics of this are going to be a bit more important than the bottom line, and I can see new users being put off by just how much grind there seems to be to get more than a couple of tables into the mix.

Craig Grannell · Mar 1, 2019

I suspect most casual users don't give a monkey's, hence the business model here. They have a ton of data and will balance everything according to that. The issue is whether or not Zen cares about the TPA audience or not. As I've said elsewhere, if they'd knock down the price of the unlocks so each table cost four or five bucks/quid/spondolicks, that would do the job, and align the mobile offering with console versions. I suspect those deep into the game would continue to fire off ads for the challenges anyway. But, again, presumably data says otherwise.

Stupid, evil data.

Carpy · Mar 3, 2019

I’ve maxed out TPZ with all hundred parts to reach my first Four star table (just waiting now to get the 100 coins) but frustratingly I’m still getting parts for it when I do the daily challenges &#55357;&#56865;

1adam12 · Mar 3, 2019

elcondor said:
It feels like at the moment there are three 'currencies' in the game (tickets, Zen Coins and parts), whereas normally these types of things have just 2. If the parts were not table specific, so the user could decide where to place them, while it would be better for the user I can see that it reduces the 'one more go' factor Zen seem to be going for. At some point though, the optics of this are going to be a bit more important than the bottom line, and I can see new users being put off by just how much grind there seems to be to get more than a couple of tables into the mix.

And that's where I fall. I have almost all of these tables on TPA, and they're fine, but not favorites. Limiting me to one table definitely ensures I won't play much to start. I just can't play the same table over and over, and these artificial caps on score and time kill the pinball experience.

For me, this another failure for Zen. People seem to love the tables and don't mind the system, but I guess I'm too old school. Let me buy and play what I want and if I want add ons, I'll buy them.

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Kolchak357 · Mar 3, 2019

I’m in the same boat. Just not interested in playing challenges over and over again to open more stuff. I went with the iOS limited time purchase (which is available for android as well I think). $20 to buy all 7 pins. Much happier now.

If the purchase option didn’t show up on your mobile device (it didn’t on mine), email zen via the contact button in the app and they will open the $20 to buy all 7 pins option for you.

crazyflipperfingers · Mar 3, 2019

Carpy said:
I’ve maxed out TPZ with all hundred parts to reach my first Four star table (just waiting now to get the 100 coins) but frustratingly I’m still getting parts for it when I do the daily challenges ��

I keep getting parts for tables I've maxed out (on parts) too. I don't like that at all. It makes the challenges feel like a waste of time. Also, I've been grinding the hell out of the app since I got it and just finally got to 100 coins (what I need to upgrade to 4 star on a table). I started with about 25 coins (I stopped spending them on the challenge rewards once I realized how hard they were to get back). It's become clear that I will never be able to upgrade all tables to 4 stars without either playing many hours every day or spending actual money. At first it appeared that I would be able to unlock everything just by grinding, and that is technically true, but it's just not very realistic. The revenue model for the app seems to be grind, grind, grind (while watching tons of videos) and then pay (overpriced) eventually in the end. I really enjoyed my time so far on this app, but I'm going back to Steam and probably not looking back unless I'm stuck somewhere out of the house with nothing else to do to kill time.

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