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Thread: Williams' Collection Volume 4 guesses

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfson View Post
    Mel , can I catch a Taxi ?
    Updated taxi https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48297440

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    Senior Member lettuce's Avatar
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    Can you ask it they have plans to release on the Oculus Quest store?

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    Senior Member wolfson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbers View Post
    wilbers , good one ,that would be nice fling around the Taxi table !!!

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    You can watch the interview as it premieres on YouTube at 3:45 PDT here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PW_cPKR_JZA

    Iíll be live chatting in the comments while it plays. Lots of good info you guys will feast on, trust me! And obviously once the video is up you can watch it whenever, but live chatting opens up the opportunity to pose your own questions or comments that I can try and respond to. See you all then!

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    Senior Member Pete's Avatar
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    nice just saw the link clicked it and it says 2 minutes till air time... sweet! hope they say something about psvr or oculus quest happening i will freak right out and buy one

  6. #231
    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    You can watch the interview as it premieres on YouTube at 3:45 PDT here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PW_cPKR_JZA

    I’ll be live chatting in the comments while it plays. Lots of good info you guys will feast on, trust me! And obviously once the video is up you can watch it whenever, but live chatting opens up the opportunity to pose your own questions or comments that I can try and respond to. See you all then!
    Good stuff as always.

    So...

    New flipper physics across all Williams tables.

    Williams physics on Original Zen tables and Lighting options will NOT be coming until FX4 Ultra.

    Universal Monsters 2 pack released around Halloween.

    The EPIC store deal delayed the original table pack to at least 2020.

    They are working with Stern.

    Edit - And if I were to speculate... the specialty stuff Mel referred to is obviously Big Bang Bar and Kingpin tables.
    Last edited by trash80; 05-16-2019 at 04:12 PM.

  7. #232
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash80 View Post
    Good stuff as always.

    So...

    New flipper physics across all Williams tables.

    Williams physics on Original Zen tables and Lighting options will NOT be coming until FX4 Ultra.

    Universal Monsters 2 pack released around Halloween.

    The EPIC store deal delayed the original table pack to at least 2020.

    They are working with Stern.

    Edit - And if I were to speculate... the specialty stuff Mel referred to is obviously Big Bang Bar and Kingpin tables.
    Wow, took some liberties there with info and sprinkled in some speculation !

  8. #233
    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Wow, took some liberties there with info and sprinkled in some speculation !
    Did I?

    Maybe the specialty stuff is a Pinball 2000 Star Wars table (oh, they already have one in the studio, hmmm)... I was surprised to hear you not know about the cabinet being out in the wild.
    Last edited by trash80; 05-16-2019 at 05:30 PM.

  9. #234
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    Some of the licensing aspects certainly are easy to overlook. Couldn't think what the Frank Sinatra license was for, but after googling it found out it was needed for Party Zone.

  10. #235
    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbers View Post
    Some of the licensing aspects certainly are easy to overlook. Couldn't think what the Frank Sinatra license was for, but after googling it found out it was needed for Party Zone.
    I applaud Zen for being as thorough as they are in regard to proper licensing, but this is also why I think there are some tables that may never see the light of a Zen version.

    Shutyertrap: You may want to ask Mel next time you speak to him if Zen is in the position to alter 3rd party assets due to not being able to secure proper licensing, or does having any unsecured asset license cause a table to be completely out of the picture.
    Last edited by trash80; 05-16-2019 at 05:34 PM.

  11. #236
    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    We already know from Party Zone that not being able to secure 100% of a table's third party licensing doesn't put it completely out of the picture. They're clearly able to remove third party assets they couldn't license. But yeah, altering could be a different story. Music is easier because you just remove a track. Aesthetics are a different story because they'd require alternation. Even simply removing Fester/Lloyd from TAF completely could be seen as an alternation to the overall art package (not to mention it'd be a sucky solution).

  12. #237
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash80 View Post
    I applaud Zen for being as thorough as they are in regard to proper licensing, but this is also why I think there are some tables that may never see the light of a Zen version.

    Shutyertrap: You may want to ask Mel next time you speak to him if Zen is in the position to alter 3rd party assets due to not being able to secure proper licensing, or does having any unsecured asset license cause a table to be completely out of the picture.
    Iíll see what I can about that. I suspect more will become clear once we see that first licensed table, from choice of what it is to if certain aspects are cut. For instance, FarSight chose not to license all the music in some of the tables. Itís not readily apparent, and most people would never even notice unless they were very familiar with the tables. Question is, and I suspect Zen feels this way, does doing that make other 3rd parties less inclined to deal with you?

    Then thereís the flip side to that, which is Zen clearly did not use the famous music for Jaws, BttF, ET, Jurassic Park, or Aliens. They got the music for Star Wars, but hired sound alikes for vocal work.

    So what do you feel the possible Ďimpossibleí tables are? FarSight couldnít make Rollergames happen, had to severely alter World Cup, made No Fear rather generic, and of course thereís TAF from which we labeled all these alterations as being Festered. I think NBA Fastbreak never sees light of day unfortunately, but Iíll keep pushing till Iím told straight up no. If World Cup comes out unscathed, thereís hope.

    Iíve asked Mel privately about licensing before, and heís very tight lipped. They take it VERY seriously and donít want anything to ruin a potential deal. Thatís why I say weíll just have to wait for their first public moves and then maybe more info can be brought to light.

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    Senior Member Blkthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    I’ll see what I can about that. I suspect more will become clear once we see that first licensed table, from choice of what it is to if certain aspects are cut. For instance, FarSight chose not to license all the music in some of the tables. It’s not readily apparent, and most people would never even notice unless they were very familiar with the tables. Question is, and I suspect Zen feels this way, does doing that make other 3rd parties less inclined to deal with you?

    Then there’s the flip side to that, which is Zen clearly did not use the famous music for Jaws, BttF, ET, Jurassic Park, or Aliens. They got the music for Star Wars, but hired sound alikes for vocal work.

    So what do you feel the possible ‘impossible’ tables are? FarSight couldn’t make Rollergames happen, had to severely alter World Cup, made No Fear rather generic, and of course there’s TAF from which we labeled all these alterations as being Festered. I think NBA Fastbreak never sees light of day unfortunately, but I’ll keep pushing till I’m told straight up no. If World Cup comes out unscathed, there’s hope.

    I’ve asked Mel privately about licensing before, and he’s very tight lipped. They take it VERY seriously and don’t want anything to ruin a potential deal. That’s why I say we’ll just have to wait for their first public moves and then maybe more info can be brought to light.
    About the only ones I can see them having troubles with are the two you mentioned in NBA Fastbreak and Rollergames and then Playboy really. If Zen and Stern start collaborating together then you will have a bunch of tables that will probably never see the light of digitized day with Sega/Data East/Stern having a ton of big licensed tables.
    Last edited by Blkthorne; 05-16-2019 at 07:11 PM.

  14. #239
    Senior Member Dok5555555's Avatar
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    So are the new flipper physics just in arcade mode or do they change in zen mode too?

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Just arcade mode

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    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    So in beta, have you noticed any significant change in ability to pull off flipper tricks with the new physics?

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    Senior Member Striker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blkthorne View Post
    About the only ones I can see them having troubles with are the two you mentioned in NBA Fastbreak and Rollergames and then Playboy really. If Zen and Stern start collaborating together then you will have a bunch of tables that will probably never see the light of digitized day with Sega/Data East/Stern having a ton of big licensed tables.
    Interesting. Why Rollergames? It was only on TV for one season.

  18. #243
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Because tracking down who actually owns the rights is apparently very difficult. FarSight had it narrowed down to two individuals; one wasnít interested, the other they never could get ahold of. They even toyed with the idea of releasing it and seeing if anyone came calling. They were planning on Festering out the soda and other sponsor logos. Ultimately it was too risky for a table they themselves werenít even that fond of.

    Now I have no idea how much of that all came down to their licensing abilities, detective work, and desire, but sometimes these little shows get split and passed around so much, no one knows who owns what because no one really cares. Call it bad bookkeeping that isnít worth the cost of lawyers to figure out. I hope thatís not the case, but thatís the story as we know it.

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    So in beta, have you noticed any significant change in ability to pull off flipper tricks with the new physics?
    Iíve never been good at tricks, but the way the ball moves around looks very much like youíd expect to see on an actual table. Thereís supposed to be a video coming from Zen soon that will show just how much effort and research Deep put into this. The only adjustment needed was at first the flipper was absorbing too much of the ball energy. Turns out Deep suspected as much but wanted our impressions first. Next day it was tweaked and working great.

  20. #245
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Now I have no idea how much of that all came down to their licensing abilities, detective work, and desire, but sometimes these little shows get split and passed around so much, no one knows who owns what because no one really cares. Call it bad bookkeeping that isn’t worth the cost of lawyers to figure out. I hope that’s not the case, but that’s the story as we know it.
    It's worse than that, because the Roller Games company itself wasn't responsible for the TV show. The main company was only responsible for traveling live performances and they been around since the 70s.

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Just arcade mode
    I'll take it. I tried to play again for the first time in a while. I played party zone on Zen and TPA last night.

    Watching the ball just sit and die when it made contact with the flipper was one of the reasons it felt like I was playing with a rock. No bounce. No movement. I still think a lot of the bounce in Zen is lacking, too. The ball just doesn't carom off things the way it should.

    I'm a little happier than I was before with the Zen table, but I just feel like there's some hurdle it needs to get over to really play well.

    -- this is all on mobile, which may be a much different experience.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  22. #247
    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1adam12 View Post
    I'll take it. I tried to play again for the first time in a while. I played party zone on Zen and TPA last night.

    Watching the ball just sit and die when it made contact with the flipper was one of the reasons it felt like I was playing with a rock. No bounce. No movement. I still think a lot of the bounce in Zen is lacking, too. The ball just doesn't carom off things the way it should.

    I'm a little happier than I was before with the Zen table, but I just feel like there's some hurdle it needs to get over to really play well.

    -- this is all on mobile, which may be a much different experience.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    Mobile is completely different. And in the mobile app the new physics are called "Pro" which you must unlock and/or purchase outright. Though it sounds like access to the new and improved mobile physic is something that Zen is going to look into making easier to at least try out and experience in the mobile platforms.

    I'm not sure that the new flipper physics are coming to mobile.
    Last edited by trash80; 05-17-2019 at 05:53 AM.

  23. #248
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Hey, just got word from Mel and need to update a bit of info from the podcast.

    Regarding new flipper physics, they are only going to be included for the Volume 4 tables at this point.

    I think what Zen wants to do is use this pack to get all your feedback regarding these new physics. It's easier to parse through all the comments when it's purely related to only 3 tables, make changes, and then apply that to all the other tables. Or at least that's my guess. Personally I don't think anything needs to be changed from what I've played in beta. So yes, eventually all the tables will get this update and I'm hoping it will be by Volume 5, but we'll see.
    I'm just sayin'

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  24. #249
    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Hey, just got word from Mel and need to update a bit of info from the podcast.

    Regarding new flipper physics, they are only going to be included for the Volume 4 tables at this point.

    I think what Zen wants to do is use this pack to get all your feedback regarding these new physics. It's easier to parse through all the comments when it's purely related to only 3 tables, make changes, and then apply that to all the other tables. Or at least that's my guess. Personally I don't think anything needs to be changed from what I've played in beta. So yes, eventually all the tables will get this update and I'm hoping it will be by Volume 5, but we'll see.
    I understand this may be a couple months before it is applied to the previous WMS tables.

    However, if the game play is different enough with the new flipper code, it is just going to further frustrate the player base much like how many of us feel about the Zen original tables not having the updated WMS style physics. The one aspect that Zen had nailed (Before WMS) was a unified experience across all the tables, now not so much, and it makes me wonder if we are going to see incremental (but substantial feeling) differences periodically as new tables (and IP) come out without making any adjustments to previously released tables.

  25. #250
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash80 View Post
    I understand this may be a couple months before it is applied to the previous WMS tables.

    However, if the game play is different enough with the new flipper code, it is just going to further frustrate the player base much like how many of us feel about the Zen original tables not having the updated WMS style physics. The one aspect that Zen had nailed (Before WMS) was a unified experience across all the tables, now not so much, and it makes me wonder if we are going to see incremental (but substantial feeling) differences periodically as new tables (and IP) come out without making any adjustments to previously released tables.
    I warned Akos, the community manager, of this very thing when first alerted to the flipper physics coming. Specifically that as soon as people experience them, it will only create a compare and contrast with those that haven't been adjusted yet. This happened with TPA, caused all sorts of problems, from people thinking physics were changed when they weren't to people not liking the new in comparison. I stressed that it is important to unify everything as quickly as possible to avoid this headache. Because yeah, I know this forum!
    I'm just sayin'

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