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Thread: Zen & Stern collaboration teaser?

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    Senior Member francis247uk's Avatar
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    Zen & Stern collaboration teaser?

    Nice, so this just showed up on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/Mel_G_Kirk/statu...12940769214464

    Mel Kirk & Gary Stern together at Star Wars Celebration Chicago with the caption:

    "#pinball #STERN #zenstudios #future"


    Fingers crossed great times ahead for Pinball FX3!

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    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    Let the good times roll.

    Please Gottlieb too.

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    Senior Member zmcvay's Avatar
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    I feel like the writing has been on the wall for awhile. With the loss of the Williams license, you would think Farsight would go full steam on SPA tables, but there's been silence since the release of BBH and WN last year, and no word of more recent Stern tables since Ghostbusters came out in what, 2017? If they got wind that Stern would pull the licence, why focus on them just to have them pulled like the Williams tables were?

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    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Not too surprising, since it seems that Stern's contracts are a table by table basis and not a complete license. There were a few Stern reps (photo posted on FB) over at Farsight a couple weeks ago for a couple of future tables too.
    Last edited by shogun00; 04-13-2019 at 02:07 AM.

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    Senior Member wolfson's Avatar
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    up to Stern which way they go , would be nice all pinball at Zen . the Williams and Bally tables are way better at Zen , by a country mile . myself I`ve given up on TPA , Zen on the other hand say tables are coming out on a set date and they do .

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    Senior Member MBeeching's Avatar
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    Zen have been dropping hints but that does appear to be the final twist of the knife. They'll be incredibly busy with all these licence agreements and tables to develop!

    Tron seems a likely contender for their first release, though I desperately want Deadpool, Batman '66, Iron Maiden, Walking Dead, The Munsters and of course Black Knight SoR! Would I purchase AC/DC, Star Trek & Ghostbusters again? Absolutely, despite owning Farsight's versions on multiple formats (PC/Rift/Switch).

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    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBeeching View Post
    Zen have been dropping hints but that does appear to be the final twist of the knife. They'll be incredibly busy with all these licence agreements and tables to develop!

    Tron seems a likely contender for their first release, though I desperately want Deadpool, Batman '66, Iron Maiden, Walking Dead, The Munsters and of course Black Knight SoR! Would I purchase AC/DC, Star Trek & Ghostbusters again? Absolutely, despite owning Farsight's versions on multiple formats (PC/Rift/Switch).
    I'll be curious to see how they manage the Warner owned properties.

    How will this impact the availability of the Stern Pinball Arcade, and will we see the Stern tables disappear from TPA?

    Hope all the best for Zen and Stern. This should prove very exciting for us pinball fans!

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    I'm setting up an interview with Mel once more, you'd better believe I'm asking if he's just messing with us or if it's a hint of things to come. My only worry is what this might mean for all the Williams SS/Alpha Numeric tables, as clearly Zen prefers DMD.

    Zen already has licenses for quite a few of those Stern machines, so it'd be just a matter of setting new terms rather than starting from scratch. Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool, X-Men, Avengers, Spider-Man, Walking Dead, those become practically a given. Pirates, Tron, now the Simpsons, and of course the ability to then do both Indiana Jones tables, just another conversation with Disney. Considering the Star Wars to Switch announcement, you know they've spoken VERY recently.

    Would be interesting to see how Zen fairs with the music tables, but Metallica would be my first order of business, followed by Maiden and then Aerosmith. I don't know who holds the music rights to the various bands, but you probably would see a bundle if some are under Warner Music, and others under Sony, etc.

    And of course it all could just be a one-off deal, doing Black Knight: Swords of Rage, as Zen has the Williams license and Stern had to get an agreement from SG and the remake company (name escapes me).
    I'm just sayin'

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash80 View Post

    How will this impact the availability of the Stern Pinball Arcade, and will we see the Stern tables disappear from TPA?
    Stern contracted FarSight to do Stern Pinball Arcade, so it might not affect it at all. Then again, I'm sure sales of it have cratered and FarSight isn't updating or releasing for it anymore. Stern VR is an Oculus exclusive and probably would remain untouched. Stern disappearing from TPA, man I'd hope they'd learned their lesson and put a deal in place immediately after losing Williams to not allow the same thing to happen with Stern. Or maybe it becomes a deal where so long as Zen doesn't repeat a title, and there's plenty FarSight didn't touch, those would remain available.
    I'm just sayin'

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    Senior Member zmcvay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Zen already has licenses for quite a few of those Stern machines, so it'd be just a matter of setting new terms rather than starting from scratch. Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool, X-Men, Avengers, Spider-Man, Walking Dead, those become practically a given. Pirates, Tron, now the Simpsons, and of course the ability to then do both Indiana Jones tables, just another conversation with Disney. Considering the Star Wars to Switch announcement, you know they've spoken VERY recently.
    Walking Dead isn't one I'm sure of. They've done one table, and that was an adaption of Season 1 of the Telltale Game. When you get an interview next I'd be curious if that also does cover the original comic series or the TV show (Which the Stern table is based on, isn't it?). Still, that's a great potential line up, I'm trying not to get my hopes up though until we are past the teases and an announcement is made.

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    Senior Member Pinballwiz45b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Stern contracted FarSight to do Stern Pinball Arcade, so it might not affect it at all. Then again, I'm sure sales of it have cratered and FarSight isn't updating or releasing for it anymore. Stern VR is an Oculus exclusive and probably would remain untouched. Stern disappearing from TPA, man I'd hope they'd learned their lesson and put a deal in place immediately after losing Williams to not allow the same thing to happen with Stern. Or maybe it becomes a deal where so long as Zen doesn't repeat a title, and there's plenty FarSight didn't touch, those would remain available.
    Or just remove them one-by-one at the very least, if those tables ever come out on Zen's platform. They need touching up and it still hasn't happened since day 1. Notably the GI and some flashers on Star Trek, AC/DC, and Mustang. (It's just me, I have an itch for anything simulation-related to be near-perfect. Especially in visuals and audio.)

    Zen has an AC/DC in their office.

    Quote Originally Posted by zmcvay View Post
    Walking Dead isn't one I'm sure of. They've done one table, and that was an adaption of Season 1 of the Telltale Game. When you get an interview next I'd be curious if that also does cover the original comic series or the TV show (Which the Stern table is based on, isn't it?). Still, that's a great potential line up, I'm trying not to get my hopes up though until we are past the teases and an announcement is made.
    Zen probably needs AMC for Walking Dead.

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    Senior Member msilcommand's Avatar
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    Could be cool. If Farsight stops doing Stern, could they just relegate a smaller team and make a Gottlieb Pinball game? I really love those old pins, and I would hate to see them go totally backburner in digital pinball.

    My main worry for Zen is that they'll stop making their own tables, licensed or originals. I think that's their bread and butter, and is what has kept them thriving and creative. They should treat emulated pinball as just a category of their catalog, not as their main thing. I'd say a 40% emulation (at most), and 60% originals (creativity) split is safe. If they go like 80% emulation or more, they could bury themselves and get stale creatively.

    Creativity is what drives progress and innovation. Building emulated pins is lacking in the creative side, other than in the visual extras. So, we want Zen to keep making their own tables, licensed or original.
    Last edited by msilcommand; 04-13-2019 at 08:04 AM.
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    Senior Member MBeeching's Avatar
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    Stern's Walking Dead is a good table but I don't think it uses assets from the TV series (actors, voices, music etc.).
    The cabinet artwork could be problematic so I think I'd let Zen off if they replaced it with something appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by msilcommand View Post
    My main worry for Zen is that they'll stop making their own tables, licensed or originals.
    Agreed, I hope they're aware there's still a strong demand for originals - though a classic physics option is essential.
    Last edited by MBeeching; 04-13-2019 at 08:16 AM.

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    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBeeching View Post
    Stern's Walking Dead is a good table but I don't think it uses assets from the TV series (actors, voices, music etc.).
    The cabinet artwork could be problematic so I think I'd let Zen off if they replaced it with something appropriate.



    Agreed, I hope they're aware there's still a strong demand for originals - though a classic physics option is essential.
    Once a modern Stern Marvel table (like Deadpool) gets the Zen (with classic physics) treatment, no one is going to play the original Zen table. Should Zen figure out a way to justify the cost of retrofitting the WMS physics onto the Zen original tables, well maybe they will continue doing more of the the original IP thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have run out of original table layouts and rules and the only original tables we see in the future are package tie-ins with a respective real-world WMS or Stern table. For instance... the upcoming Stern Tron, with a remake of the previous Stern Tron along with an original Zen Tron would be a very enticing DLC that could also showcase the classic physics on a Zen original design.

    Here's to hoping for the in the pipeline and currently being worked on Stern Godzilla getting a same day and date Zen release along with the Sega Godzilla and a Zen original... that would be monstrous!
    Last edited by trash80; 04-13-2019 at 08:42 AM.

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    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Stern contracted FarSight to do Stern Pinball Arcade, so it might not affect it at all. Then again, I'm sure sales of it have cratered and FarSight isn't updating or releasing for it anymore. Stern VR is an Oculus exclusive and probably would remain untouched. Stern disappearing from TPA, man I'd hope they'd learned their lesson and put a deal in place immediately after losing Williams to not allow the same thing to happen with Stern. Or maybe it becomes a deal where so long as Zen doesn't repeat a title, and there's plenty FarSight didn't touch, those would remain available.
    The SPA game has some of the worst reviews and customer ill will I have ever seen on any digital platform. I can't imagine Stern sees any appreciable reason to keep that thing active.

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    Senior Member Pinballwiz45b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash80 View Post
    Once a modern Stern Marvel table (like Deadpool) gets the Zen (with classic physics) treatment, no one is going to play the original Zen table. Should Zen figure out a way to justify the cost of retrofitting the WMS physics onto the Zen original tables, well maybe they will continue doing more of the the original IP thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have run out of original table layouts and rules and the only original tables we see in the future are package tie-ins with a respective real-world WMS or Stern table. For instance... the upcoming Stern Tron, with a remake of the previous Stern Tron along with an original Zen Tron would be a very enticing DLC that could also showcase the classic physics on a Zen original design.

    Here's to hoping for the in the pipeline and currently being worked on Stern Godzilla getting a same day and date Zen release along with the Sega Godzilla and a Zen original... that would be monstrous!
    I disagree. The Zen original designs are still fun to play from time to time.

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's tough creating an original IP and then getting people to buy into it. I think that's why Zen did so many licenses with just a smattering of original IPs after they started doing Marvel. I mean they have to create all the art assets, come up with story, and then design a table. I need to revisit Mel with the question about the original tables we were supposed to get at the start of the year, see when those might happen. Dollars to donuts, one of them is Operencia. Jared and I think the other two are Infinity Golf and Disco Dodgeball, the other original IPs Zen has games for.

    I know Walking Dead is based on Telltales game, but half the battle is being able to even use the name. Stern's table has next to nothing to do with the TV show that would require a license other than it's got the AMC stamp on it and the cabinet art is clearly Greg Nicotero's zombie makeup. Oh, and the well walker.

    That's an interesting point about not playing Zen Deadpool if Stern Deadpool came along. It really would be the perfect excuse to adjust those tables to the new physics on an individual basis. We all really need to push Zen into making that physics push on original tables a thing.
    I'm just sayin'

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash80 View Post
    The SPA game has some of the worst reviews and customer ill will I have ever seen on any digital platform. I can't imagine Stern sees any appreciable reason to keep that thing active.
    For as much of a cheerleader I was over the years for TPA, I loathe SPA. It is a clunky mess on Steam that even while using a controller, I'd have to use my mouse for navigation some times. I literally have 4 hours of playtime on it according to Steam.
    I'm just sayin'

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    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    I'm setting up an interview with Mel once more, you'd better believe I'm asking if he's just messing with us or if it's a hint of things to come. My only worry is what this might mean for all the Williams SS/Alpha Numeric tables, as clearly Zen prefers DMD.

    Zen already has licenses for quite a few of those Stern machines, so it'd be just a matter of setting new terms rather than starting from scratch. Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool, X-Men, Avengers, Spider-Man, Walking Dead, those become practically a given. Pirates, Tron, now the Simpsons, and of course the ability to then do both Indiana Jones tables, just another conversation with Disney. Considering the Star Wars to Switch announcement, you know they've spoken VERY recently.

    Would be interesting to see how Zen fairs with the music tables, but Metallica would be my first order of business, followed by Maiden and then Aerosmith. I don't know who holds the music rights to the various bands, but you probably would see a bundle if some are under Warner Music, and others under Sony, etc.

    And of course it all could just be a one-off deal, doing Black Knight: Swords of Rage, as Zen has the Williams license and Stern had to get an agreement from SG and the remake company (name escapes me).
    You should ask Mel if Stern and Zen will combine assets to bring further video game elements into their physical table releases. It would make sense to me for Stern to utilize a partnership with a studio like (considering the much lower overhead) Zen to really enhance the interactivity of the backglass screen and who knows... What if Zen had Stern release a real table of one of their designs like the Champions League table?!?!?!

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    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Yeah, it's tough creating an original IP and then getting people to buy into it. I think that's why Zen did so many licenses with just a smattering of original IPs after they started doing Marvel. I mean they have to create all the art assets, come up with story, and then design a table. I need to revisit Mel with the question about the original tables we were supposed to get at the start of the year, see when those might happen. Dollars to donuts, one of them is Operencia. Jared and I think the other two are Infinity Golf and Disco Dodgeball, the other original IPs Zen has games for.
    I guess the huge piles of Tencent (EPIC Store) money may have had a hand in the delay.

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash80 View Post
    You should ask Mel if Stern and Zen will combine assets to bring further video game elements into their physical table releases. It would make sense to me for Stern to utilize a partnership with a studio like (considering the much lower overhead) Zen to really enhance the interactivity of the backglass screen and who knows... What if Zen had Stern release a real table of one of their designs like the Champions League table?!?!?!
    Zen designer Thomas Crofts when asked, and I completely agree, said that Super League Football and Aliens would make for fantastic real world tables! I'll have to see where that conversation goes with Mel, and how much I'll even be able to make public. If you see me in the coming weeks being exceedingly tight lipped in the forum, you'll know why
    I'm just sayin'

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    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinballwiz45b View Post
    I disagree. The Zen original designs are still fun to play from time to time.
    Ok. But that wasn't my point.

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    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Zen designer Thomas Crofts when asked, and I completely agree, said that Super League Football and Aliens would make for fantastic real world tables! I'll have to see where that conversation goes with Mel, and how much I'll even be able to make public. If you see me in the coming weeks being exceedingly tight lipped in the forum, you'll know why

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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Zen designer Thomas Crofts when asked, and I completely agree, said that Super League Football and Aliens would make for fantastic real world tables! I'll have to see where that conversation goes with Mel, and how much I'll even be able to make public. If you see me in the coming weeks being exceedingly tight lipped in the forum, you'll know why
    If that happens just say you've put your hat on again (as in your proverbial hat to keep secrets under that you had when you knew Zen was getting the WMS license).

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    Senior Member msilcommand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Yeah, it's tough creating an original IP and then getting people to buy into it. I think that's why Zen did so many licenses with just a smattering of original IPs after they started doing Marvel. I mean they have to create all the art assets, come up with story, and then design a table.
    I totally dig. It's just that creativity drives progress and innovation, and that process, although arduous, is part of what keeps companies fresh and progressing; and conversely, the absence of that creative grind is what often leads to companies becoming stale and non-competitive...cough...far...what. It's pretty standard. The danger of too much creativity is mainly just for young companies on a razor-thin budget, but ZEN seems to be long past that. So, to stay fresh and progressive, they need to keep a fair portion of their team on that creative grind. After all, that is what made them, not emulation.
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