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Thread: Williams' Collection Volume 5 guesses

  1. #101
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sh4wnsm1th View Post

    Also wanting to add to it, I think they're starting to run low on unlicensed DMDs, when I think of DMD pinball, I think of licenses. There are a hell of a lot of unlicensed, EMs, SSs, and S#s. It might not be out of the realm, to add in some of these unlicensed tables to a pack with licensed tables.
    There are 6 left.

    For Williams it’s Jack*Bot, No Good Gofers, and Tales of the Arabian Nights

    For Bally it’s Cactus Canyon, Cirqus Voltaire, and Who Dunnit.

    Assume that’s how the packs will be divided too, we just don’t know which will come first.

    Licensed tables will not be mixed with anything other than other licensed tables that fall under the same IP holder. In other words, it’s possible we might see a Flinstones/Dirty Harry pack since both fall under the Warner Bros umbrella. You also wouldn’t see Demolition Man and Whirlwind together, as the licensors would see it as DM being used to sell WW, this diluting their brand.

  2. #102
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klopek View Post
    I felt the need to express myself:

    I’m right there with ya.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    I don't get it, Flash Gordon is missing from frames 2 and 3.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Pete's Avatar
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    I know a guy who has a grand lizard tattoo on his arm and says it's his favorite table of all time. some people really love that one. Solar Flair is the exact same table as lizard so that one crosses out 2. Tony Hawk owns a Skateball and says it's his favorite table of all time in a video on youtube where he shows off his collection of skate stuff. Roller games is from that era right before dmd so it's pretty hooked up with more modern stuff than older stuff, it's almost like if they waited just a couple more months to drop it they would have put a dmd on it. Rollergames is not an unlicensed property though, i think some people just figure they never heard of rollergames so think it's just made up but Rollergames was actually a semi decently popular competitive sports TV show in the era when American Gladiators was doing so well. Rollergames even had a very crappy NES game made of it.
    Last edited by Pete; 08-01-2019 at 05:40 AM.

  5. #105
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    Sometime im just wondering if something else might come out as a surprise, since its been about 2 month and a half since the last ´tease ´, and now over two month and no news on whats coming. I think we all guess the next two ´unlicensed dmd ‘ pack, but will they really release them like right away? I think these two last pack are like the top of the cream, maybe they want to hold em a bit, cause what else they got after? If license stuff is not right now, perhaps they might be thinking about releasing non-dmd non-licensed stuff first? Just speculating here. Cant wait to see whats coming next, but i would be just more happy to see something we havent seen yet. Like anything!

  6. #106
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Here's something to consider...

    On Twitter Zen has been heavily promoting the 19 Star Wars tables coming to Switch. Not only is this a digital download, but they are also going to have physical copies in the stores and it's gonna sell for $30. That comes out September 13th. It's more than possible they've decided to have laser like focus on this product and therefore will put on hold the release of Volume 5. This is a really big deal to them, especially since it'll be the first Star Wars title coming to the Switch. It only follows that they want to show to Disney that they put their full promotional weight behind this, with nothing else competing for attention.

    We still have not gotten a beta for Volume 5, and in the past we've had 3 to 4 weeks with to test them out. I've gotta believe this is their course of action now.

    I also don't believe this is a bad thing in the least. Zen doesn't rush products out just to meet an arbitrary deadline. This'll give them more time to implement the Vol 4 flipper physics into 1-3 possibly for the next release. We always used to beg FarSight to take a gap month, make things as bug free as possible, and they never listened until near the end.

    The other thing to consider is Zen was just at California Extreme, and once again they showed off their Champion Edition cabinet that is going to get placed at commercial businesses this fall. No doubt they are also getting that software as airtight as they can.
    I'm just sayin'

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  7. #107
    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    I mean if it lets them grease Disney for IJ then so be it.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Blkthorne's Avatar
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    Zen was trying to have a Twitch stream this morning but were having technical difficulties, it had both Akos and Jeno present and was suppose to be Jeno's introduction, looked like they were going to show Star Wars tables on the Switch. Guess they are trying to get the stream to work tomorrow.

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    Killing me here man. Lol.

    The other thing to consider is I firmly believe in my completely made up superstitious belief that they are waiting for me to get to 600 coins. Good news only 30 to go. So it won’t be much longer guys. ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by twopossums View Post
    Killing me here man. Lol.

    The other thing to consider is I firmly believe in my completely made up superstitious belief that they are waiting for me to get to 600 coins. Good news only 30 to go. So it won’t be much longer guys. ;-)
    Pity its not that, or it would be here in a week.

    As long as they ain't waiting on me to get the last achievement in the Stanley Parable - only one I've got left is "Play the Stanley Parable for the entire duration of a Tuesday" - no thanks to that one! Not many achievements in that game, but some are truly odd. Its ones of those games that everyone should experience.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Here's something to consider...

    On Twitter Zen has been heavily promoting the 19 Star Wars tables coming to Switch. Not only is this a digital download, but they are also going to have physical copies in the stores and it's gonna sell for $30. That comes out September 13th. It's more than possible they've decided to have laser like focus on this product and therefore will put on hold the release of Volume 5. This is a really big deal to them, especially since it'll be the first Star Wars title coming to the Switch. It only follows that they want to show to Disney that they put their full promotional weight behind this, with nothing else competing for attention.

    We still have not gotten a beta for Volume 5, and in the past we've had 3 to 4 weeks with to test them out. I've gotta believe this is their course of action now.

    I also don't believe this is a bad thing in the least. Zen doesn't rush products out just to meet an arbitrary deadline. This'll give them more time to implement the Vol 4 flipper physics into 1-3 possibly for the next release. We always used to beg FarSight to take a gap month, make things as bug free as possible, and they never listened until near the end.

    The other thing to consider is Zen was just at California Extreme, and once again they showed off their Champion Edition cabinet that is going to get placed at commercial businesses this fall. No doubt they are also getting that software as airtight as they can.
    I fundamentally disagree that this isn’t a bad thing. Because to me it looks like the signs of a company that is spread too thin, not just making a product as bug free as possible.

    This slow of a pace is extremely frustrating. I don’t mind waiting awhile longer for the actual tables, but it sure would be nice to have a hint of which ones they are.

  12. #112
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    As the consumers, of course we want what we want and we want it now. Just because our desires are not being met does not mean the companies we want stuff from are failing.

    Everyone was loosing their minds over the fact Marvel wouldn't reveal any of their plans post Endgame, and that started a year prior when Infinity War came out. Shoot, they were barely willing to acknowledge Spider-Man: Far From Home was even a thing until Endgame actually released. The point of it was they wanted to honor what was set up in Infinity War, give it the proper gravity (despite everyone knowing most of the deaths were reversible) so further make Endgame hit with impact. I'd say job well done considering it's now the #1 grosser of all time. And then they still held the cards close to the vest just to let Spider-Man have it's moment of being the epilogue if you will of Phase 3. Then boom, there's Comic Con and the entire Phase 5 lineup with release dates.

    It's called marketing and how to properly handle hype.

    Mel stated that Zen doesn't like to announce things too far in advance (Star Wars kinda being the exception to the rule) because if people have too much time to revel in hype, inevitably resentment over certain things takes over and suddenly negativity gets introduced. Zen is not being spread too thin. They are simply giving promotion to one release at a time. When they were doing original tables, there never was a time table for releases, with sometimes there being a 4 or 5 month gap. They understand what they're doing, which is partly why they have such good relations with those that hold licenses.
    I'm just sayin'

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  13. #113
    Senior Member lettuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinballwiz45b View Post
    Mixing Dracula with Monster Bash and Creature has conflicting licenses. While Universal both have Monster Bash and Creature, they weren't involved in the making of the Bram Stoker's Dracula movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by lettuce View Post
    Good Point, id be over the moon with Monster Bash regardless of what other 2 its bundled with but sounds like CFTBL could be a shoe in for the 2nd table of the pack......wonder what they could use for the 3rd game
    Going back to this, doesnt Addams Family also fall under the Universal banner?, in which case imagine this table pack for halloween...

    Monster Bash
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  14. #114
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lettuce View Post
    Going back to this, doesnt Addams Family also fall under the Universal banner?, in which case imagine this table pack for halloween...

    Monster Bash
    Creature From The Black Lagoon
    Addams Family
    No, Addams was released by Paramount. Also have to get approval from the Addams estate.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    As the consumers, of course we want what we want and we want it now. Just because our desires are not being met does not mean the companies we want stuff from are failing.

    Everyone was loosing their minds over the fact Marvel wouldn't reveal any of their plans post Endgame, and that started a year prior when Infinity War came out. Shoot, they were barely willing to acknowledge Spider-Man: Far From Home was even a thing until Endgame actually released. The point of it was they wanted to honor what was set up in Infinity War, give it the proper gravity (despite everyone knowing most of the deaths were reversible) so further make Endgame hit with impact. I'd say job well done considering it's now the #1 grosser of all time. And then they still held the cards close to the vest just to let Spider-Man have it's moment of being the epilogue if you will of Phase 3. Then boom, there's Comic Con and the entire Phase 5 lineup with release dates.

    It's called marketing and how to properly handle hype.

    Mel stated that Zen doesn't like to announce things too far in advance (Star Wars kinda being the exception to the rule) because if people have too much time to revel in hype, inevitably resentment over certain things takes over and suddenly negativity gets introduced. Zen is not being spread too thin. They are simply giving promotion to one release at a time. When they were doing original tables, there never was a time table for releases, with sometimes there being a 4 or 5 month gap. They understand what they're doing, which is partly why they have such good relations with those that hold licenses.
    No, they are totally spread too thin.

    It was said many months ago that they wanted to increase the pace of releases for these tables, and instead it seems to be going the other way. I think specifically because of the switch and also their arcade efforts. You can only have your staff working on so many projects at once.

    Also, your resentment comment makes no sense to me at all. If that were a fear, why make an exception for the Switch release? Wouldn’t negativity be an issue there too? Although, I think that notion is kind of silly to begin with, because there is negativity if you DON’T say something and if you DON’T have timely releases too.

    All I am asking for is just a hint here. Not even the actual titles or release date. Just throw me a bone here Zen. That is all I am even wanting at this point. Something other then.......silence.

  16. #116
    Senior Member Lord Boron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    No, Addams was released by Paramount. Also have to get approval from the Addams estate.
    Not to mention Raul Julia, which if I remember was a sticking point with Farsight, and they never managed to get Christopher Loyds approval.

  17. #117
    Member Cloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    snip...
    This'll give them more time to implement the Vol 4 flipper physics into 1-3 possibly for the next release.
    snip...
    I'm a long time Pinball FX player and am used to waiting for new releases. I'm recent to Xbox One, so have 90+ tables to work through again! My one frustration though is that they are (presumably) waiting until they release the new William's volume before they update the flipper physics for the first three volumes. I'm holding back from playing those tables in Classic Single Player until they have the updated flipper physics. Once the new volume comes out, that will be my focus and I'll only get to the first volumes much later. Anyway... Zen is doing what they are doing so I'll just have to be patient.
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  18. #118
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scared Stiff View Post
    No, they are totally spread too thin.

    It was said many months ago that they wanted to increase the pace of releases for these tables, and instead it seems to be going the other way. I think specifically because of the switch and also their arcade efforts. You can only have your staff working on so many projects at once.

    Also, your resentment comment makes no sense to me at all. If that were a fear, why make an exception for the Switch release? Wouldn’t negativity be an issue there too? Although, I think that notion is kind of silly to begin with, because there is negativity if you DON’T say something and if you DON’T have timely releases too.

    All I am asking for is just a hint here. Not even the actual titles or release date. Just throw me a bone here Zen. That is all I am even wanting at this point. Something other then.......silence.
    Dude, you do realize they have an entire block of employees, around 20, purely devoted to pinball? They have other employees that work on Operencia, or whatever new app is in the works that isn't pinball. They also have a team dedicated to all things mobile. Akos just moved into marketing, but he has said the community manager type stuff has gone from 1 to 3 people in the department. They are hiring, they are expanding. The release schedule for Zen has never been on a set schedule going all the way back to the early days.

    I look at Naughty Dog and what's going on with The Last of Us 2, where it got announced 2 years ago. They are living by the motto of it's done when it's done. I'm sure Sony is losing their minds over it, but on the other hand you don't want be Fallout '76.

    You say at the very least you want a hint? Hear ya go, the next Volume packs are either going to be the 3 remaining Williams DMD tables or the 3 remaining Bally tables. Has Zen said that? No, but you can take it to the bank. If you're looking for a hint as to what the licensed table stuff is going to be, they like to keep that close to the vest just in case something happens with the license holder that is out of their control.

    As for hype, you do agree that there is a certain apex to where hype reaches its max and then starts dropping down again, yeah? Zen believes they have found that sweet spot to capitalize on max hype. Now unless you have access to their internal data (I know I don't), I'm going to figure they know what they are doing.
    I'm just sayin'

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  19. #119
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    Ok but you can't have it both ways ShutyerTrap. You can't try to explain that they are focusing on this Star Wars release and they had to go to some show and they are releasing some arcade machine and what all else and then turn around and say they have more than enough people to do all this and have tons of teams and are hiring more people all the time.

    I guess my worry comes from if two months ago they said they were going to release something then something happens within that two months to change the schedule its either they were spread to thin and couldn't make the release date or there was something wrong with the release that they had to fix. its all understandable but we don't have anything to go on so instead of twiddling our thumbs we'll argue about what we think is going on.

    For me personally the hype has already hit its apex and is in decline. Another month from know I don't know how I'll feel. I've already grinded (ground?) enough for the next release and almost enough for the next two. I feel no need to play the game as much as I did and a new release would have been optimal to keep me interested.

    Hopefully it will all turn out ok and this time next year we're arguing over which alphanumeric will be next but until then I'm hoping that they either know what they are doing or will figure it out soon. I'll probably find something else to play for awhile. Bad for Zen if I'm not the only one.

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    For me , hype also might have reach its apex and is also declining, but i think its due to the fact that we know whats coming, and that i got it all in TPA. When they start doing non-dmd stuff, i hope they do something like 1 unseen table per pack, that could just be very awesome. I really love the Zen physics, visual, it make me enjoy tables i didnt enjoy at first in TPA, but in a way sometime i feel im just buying remasters version of something that already exist. Im still happy to get em, but i think we need new tables. If your telling me that what we will get till the end of the year is the next two logical tables pack, and in halloween stuff like Addams Family, Monster Bash, Lagoon, and still nothing new, i will be disappointed .

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    Quote Originally Posted by HighFive View Post
    For me , hype also might have reach its apex and is also declining, but i think its due to the fact that we know whats coming, and that i got it all in TPA. When they start doing non-dmd stuff, i hope they do something like 1 unseen table per pack, that could just be very awesome. I really love the Zen physics, visual, it make me enjoy tables i didnt enjoy at first in TPA, but in a way sometime i feel im just buying remasters version of something that already exist. Im still happy to get em, but i think we need new tables. If your telling me that what we will get till the end of the year is the next two logical tables pack, and in halloween stuff like Addams Family, Monster Bash, Lagoon, and still nothing new, i will be disappointed .
    For me peak hype was the picture with Gary Stern and Mel.

  22. #122
    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    Halloween will almost certainly be nothing new if we do get a Halloween themed pack. They only have the WMS license right now and are doing the DMDs. There aren't any horror-themed WMS DMDs left that FarSight didn't do, and pickings would be slim even if they did dig back into the pre-DMD WMS library for a Halloween appropriate table that FarSight didn't already do. They'd have to dig down to the high 100s/200s on the IPDB list for something like Medusa, and I just don't see them wanting to do that at this point while they're still trying to get half their fanbase acclimated to real pinball recreations.

  23. #123
    Member Cloda's Avatar
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    I feel sorry for you guys that played TPA I for one couldn't stand the floaty physics so never got into it. Each table is thus new and exciting for me and there will be many other Zen Pinball only players like myself that are now discovering the real tables for the first time. In my opinion, Zen's major stroke of brilliance with the Williams tables are that they designed the tables to work with the familiar Zen physics in addition to the Classic Arcade / Tournament physics. If they didn't do that, the tables would have been inaccessible to most of the traditional Zen players. I realised a long time ago, mostly looking at the scores posted on the leaderboards, that there is only a small elite of maybe a 100 players that are able to beat wizard modes and build big scores on the traditional Zen tables. The players (from the traditionally Zen only pool) that would have been able to do well with the Williams Classic physics right away and immediately enjoyed it are certainly not many.
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  24. #124
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloda View Post
    I feel sorry for you guys that played TPA I for one couldn't stand the floaty physics so never got into it. Each table is thus new and exciting for me and there will be many other Zen Pinball only players like myself that are now discovering the real tables for the first time. In my opinion, Zen's major stroke of brilliance with the Williams tables are that they designed the tables to work with the familiar Zen physics in addition to the Classic Arcade / Tournament physics. If they didn't do that, the tables would have been inaccessible to most of the traditional Zen players. I realised a long time ago, mostly looking at the scores posted on the leaderboards, that there is only a small elite of maybe a 100 players that are able to beat wizard modes and build big scores on the traditional Zen tables. The players (from the traditionally Zen only pool) that would have been able to do well with the Williams Classic physics right away and immediately enjoyed it are certainly not many.
    Don't feel sorry for us, we got to play these tables for a solid 6 years without really knowing better! It's sort of like how my wife, a huge Harry Potter fan, feels about someone reading the books for the first time now. She's extremely jealous that they don't have to wait the extended period of time between books, can read the entire story straight through, and then can sit down and watch the entire movie series too. On the other hand, she got to revel in fandom for all that time, which in and of itself can be fun too.

    The rest of your post is spot on to what I've been telling people. Zen had its core group of fans, and they were more worried about them accepting these table recreations than they were about TPA fans being willing to double dip. Obviously they wanted to please both, but taking care of that original fan base was quite important.
    I'm just sayin'

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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Dude, you do realize they have an entire block of employees, around 20, purely devoted to pinball? They have other employees that work on Operencia, or whatever new app is in the works that isn't pinball. They also have a team dedicated to all things mobile. Akos just moved into marketing, but he has said the community manager type stuff has gone from 1 to 3 people in the department. They are hiring, they are expanding. The release schedule for Zen has never been on a set schedule going all the way back to the early days.

    I look at Naughty Dog and what's going on with The Last of Us 2, where it got announced 2 years ago. They are living by the motto of it's done when it's done. I'm sure Sony is losing their minds over it, but on the other hand you don't want be Fallout '76.

    You say at the very least you want a hint? Hear ya go, the next Volume packs are either going to be the 3 remaining Williams DMD tables or the 3 remaining Bally tables. Has Zen said that? No, but you can take it to the bank. If you're looking for a hint as to what the licensed table stuff is going to be, they like to keep that close to the vest just in case something happens with the license holder that is out of their control.

    As for hype, you do agree that there is a certain apex to where hype reaches its max and then starts dropping down again, yeah? Zen believes they have found that sweet spot to capitalize on max hype. Now unless you have access to their internal data (I know I don't), I'm going to figure they know what they are doing.
    Hiring and expanding doesn’t mean POOF! it’s a done deal and everyone is up to speed and churning out stuff. It takes TIME to ramp up new hires. When you say you want to release things faster and instead don’t, that points to an internal issue. It’s logical to put two and two together and think the extra new projects are causing it.

    Additionally, your sweet spot for hype doesn’t make sense to me either. Considering the Nintendo Switch stuff was announced months in advance.

    I like looking forward to something. And yes, I am well aware of what packs are potentially on the list. I just what a hint. You know...the way they did with the White Water animation. Something for us to talk about and fuss over.

    Wouldn’t that be better than NOTHING?

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