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Thread: Williams' Collection Volume 5 guesses

  1. #226
    Senior Member Cloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    It's on their "to do" list, and I trust Zen a lot more about that sort of thing than I ever did FarSight. Still, we need to keep the pressure on regarding getting the new Williams flipper physics applied to Vol 1-3 as well as any future Zen Originals release. It also wouldn't hurt to always mention to Zen how much we'd like to see some of those physics make it to previously released Originals too. Bring it up often on their Discord page, in tweets, on Facebook. Otherwise Zen is working in a bubble and won't know how important these things are.
    Good point. Even on Discord there are only a vocal minority (including myself ;-) ) that brings up these kind a thoughts and issues so more people agree / disagreeing with things said will inform Zen better. At least Deep on Facebook once responded to a question about the vol 4 physics in vol 1-3 and he said that they already played really nicely with it. I don't know what the holdup is and hope it is not something about concern that the leaderboards might need to be reset because the game is harder / easier with the vol 4 physics (just speculating).
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  2. #227
    Senior Member Rayder's Avatar
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    They probably won't update the app until the pack is released. Two birds with one stone sort of thing.

  3. #228
    Senior Member Cloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayder View Post
    They probably won't update the app until the pack is released. Two birds with one stone sort of thing.
    Oh... sorry, forgot to add that on the previous Blahcade podcast, Shutyertrap said that the vol 4 flipper physics will not be ready yet for Vol 1-3 with the next release.
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  4. #229
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    If they dont update the new physics to the first releases this update you probably wont see it happen the next update aswell. They might be afraid people complaining about the leaderboard issues when scores are made with the newer physics. The old physics are easier so people might complain not being able to reach those scores with the new physics.
    Last edited by PinJimmy; 10-07-2019 at 06:22 AM.

  5. #230
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    From my understanding last time Mel was on it is a lot of work to update those tables. A lot of work that honestly doesn’t get them much. We’ve already bought the tables. Sure it would be great and we’d appreciate it. They could taut that all the tables have the updated physics to new buyers. But that doesn’t then the garner them the sales figures of a new release.

    What I was reading between the lines was basically updating them is way on the back burner. If it happens whenever great but I’m not holding my breath. I’m more concerned about new tables.

    Of course I’m pulling all of this out of my ass. I have no idea how this company decides to run itself.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by twopossums View Post
    From my understanding last time Mel was on it is a lot of work to update those tables.
    That's interesting, maybe we can get someone from Zen to shed a bit more light on their physics engines and how that works. Ideally they should only have to update the engine and have that working Fx-3 wide rather than per table pack so a physics improvement rolls out to all tables automatically.

  7. #232
    Moderator jaredmorgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byte View Post
    That's interesting, maybe we can get someone from Zen to shed a bit more light on their physics engines and how that works. Ideally they should only have to update the engine and have that working Fx-3 wide rather than per table pack so a physics improvement rolls out to all tables automatically.
    It's challenging because each table is bespoke tuned.

    Because in real life each table behaves differently.

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  8. #233
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    On a podcast right before the release of the last pack we got, Mel stated that the other tables would get the new physics at the release of it. He later took back that statement. Kinda weird cause he said it like it was all ready to be released. So you think well maybe it will be patch in later with the next pack but its not happening and thats pretty strange considering how many people are asking for it.

    Could be there is an other physics update coming and they dont want to re adjust the same tables a second or third time
    Last edited by PinJimmy; 10-08-2019 at 02:36 PM.

  9. #234
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinJimmy View Post
    On a podcast right before the release of the last pack we got, Mel stated that the other tables would get the new physics at the release of it. He later took back that statement. Kinda weird cause he said it like it was all ready to be released. So you think well maybe it will be patch in later with the next pack but its not happening and thats pretty strange considering how many people are asking for it.
    Keep in mind, that Mel is just a PR rep. Information is subject to change at any given notice.

    Mel just relayed the information that Deep (lead developer) said. Deep has stated over on the Zen Forums, that if everything goes well the physics would be applied when the next set of tables release.

    Looks like a snag occurred.
    Last edited by shogun00; 10-08-2019 at 03:47 PM.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    Keep in mind, that Mel is just a PR rep. Information is subject to change at any given notice.

    Mel just relayed the information that Deep (lead developer) said. Deep has stated over on the Zen Forums, that if everything goes well the physics would be applied when the next set of tables release.

    Looks like a snag occurred.
    Yes exactly! I was literally about to make that point. I’m sure he’s a great guy and I appreciate him coming on the podcast but honestly he only knows what he’s told. He’s not making the decisions. Things change in businesses and the PR guys are sent in to clean up the mess.

  11. #236
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    I was just thinking about this today...

    Remember when FarSight announced they were going to do that Alvin G Soccer? They even bought the thing and had it in the studio. The only factor was they first had to work out online head to head, which did go into what they called a beta, but it seriously was a barely working alpha. Now this was all good fodder for discussion in the forum, but then it became a factor of "well where and when are we seeing it?", and as time rolled on it showed the inability of the studio to get the thing off the ground. On top of that, as people tired of waiting, the demand for the head to head feature diminished to the point that it seemingly didn't seem like something FarSight should sink anymore money into.

    Point being, Zen playing it close to the vest is probably much better for their interests than making promises that they then have to keep breaking. Yes it sucks having to wait to hear anything, but better to make announcements about things happening imminently than things they have hopes and dreams about. Also, game development happens, where all sorts of forks in the road send you down paths you didn't expect. There are more than a few things I have been told in confidence with the express understanding not to leak it because things might change, and sure enough things changed. There's even the bit Mel announced in our podcast way back when about a new Zen originals pack that was supposed to come out last winter, and I'm sure he wishes he never said anything about it now as it's just become this thing that perpetually gets brought up.

    So patience is the word. There's numerous business reasons for why Zen does what they do, and all of it is in effort to keep pumping out the content we love, with the polish we want, while building bridges with other companies in the hopes of getting content we all dream about.
    I'm just sayin'

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  12. #237
    Senior Member Cloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    I was just thinking about this today...

    Remember when FarSight announced they were going to do that Alvin G Soccer? They even bought the thing and had it in the studio. The only factor was they first had to work out online head to head, which did go into what they called a beta, but it seriously was a barely working alpha. Now this was all good fodder for discussion in the forum, but then it became a factor of "well where and when are we seeing it?", and as time rolled on it showed the inability of the studio to get the thing off the ground. On top of that, as people tired of waiting, the demand for the head to head feature diminished to the point that it seemingly didn't seem like something FarSight should sink anymore money into.

    Point being, Zen playing it close to the vest is probably much better for their interests than making promises that they then have to keep breaking. Yes it sucks having to wait to hear anything, but better to make announcements about things happening imminently than things they have hopes and dreams about. Also, game development happens, where all sorts of forks in the road send you down paths you didn't expect. There are more than a few things I have been told in confidence with the express understanding not to leak it because things might change, and sure enough things changed. There's even the bit Mel announced in our podcast way back when about a new Zen originals pack that was supposed to come out last winter, and I'm sure he wishes he never said anything about it now as it's just become this thing that perpetually gets brought up.

    So patience is the word. There's numerous business reasons for why Zen does what they do, and all of it is in effort to keep pumping out the content we love, with the polish we want, while building bridges with other companies in the hopes of getting content we all dream about.
    Patience... easy for you to say with full knowledge of what is coming next and when

    I'm patient but also don't mind a bit of wild speculation based on a possible connection a friend made On 25 October it will be 20 years since Williams closed its doors. What if the tables that will presumably be announced on the 16th is not related to Halloween but in recognition of the closing of Williams? Do you think Zen is ready and can do justice yet to Revenge from Mars and Star Wars: Episode 1? Obviously we'll know soon enough but it is something to ponder in the meantime
    Last edited by Cloda; 10-09-2019 at 11:39 AM.
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  13. #238
    Moderator jaredmorgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    Keep in mind, that Mel is just a PR rep. Information is subject to change at any given notice.
    Mel is the Vice President of Publishing.

    That's a bit more than "just a PR rep".



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    I mean no disrespect to Mel. Personally I’m very happy that he comes on the podcast. My point being that we shouldn’t read too much into something he said was going to happen not happening (or to be more hopeful not happening yet)

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    5 months. I understand being patient, but after this wait, im really hoping to see something bigger announce than the packs were expected to see. Sometime im worried a bit that something happen internally . Were just getting response like Farsight are doing that they work on something new and we just dont see anything. Yeah, there is a beta out for testers since late july, but its not here yet, and if by next week there is nothing announced, it just make me feel something not good is going on.

  16. #241
    Senior Member Gorgias32's Avatar
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    Just got an update to the Williams Pinball app on Android, with "stability improvements" and "minor bug fixes" - could this be a platform update in preparation for release of the next table pack?

    I have accumulated 475 coins waiting for this pack to be released, I'm ready to go!

  17. #242
    Senior Member Pete's Avatar
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    arg, it's taking so long to hear stuff. i guess unless they throw us an out of nowhere surprise for Halloween we wont see something farsight didnt do this year. its so crazy to think how fast farsight was throwing tables at us the first year. just lobbin' the things at us. i know they had some glitches and stuff but right now my ps4 version of zen has been really glitchy itself. examples- when you end a challenge or game all the stuff that's supposed to display about how you did compared to your best time is all blank fields, Ive seen the ball fly off the table into nothingness on a couple different tables which resulted in ball searches and giving me a new ball after a time. when you start shadow boxing on championship pub it loses the ball everytime so the countdown just ticks away and when it's over it ball searches. and many more little things that can annoy you. like how the hell are you supposed to do the survival mode on safe cracker when the damn board game makes the time tick down, it's like youve got to time your entrances to the bank just right at the start of a new level or you lose. ive got it up to level 14 twice, only challenge i haven't completed, its very frustrating. so zen isnt perfect or anything but they are pretty good. part of the problem of why we arn't seeing something farsight didnt do is they already did all the best stuff that doesn't cost tons of money to do. so when you look at the list of the 12 licensed dmd tables we never got from farsight you have to remember that are mostly very hard to acquire properties, with a couple that lacked interest in the mix.

    01 Gilligan's Island 1991 Bally
    02 Indiana Jones Pinball Adventure 1993 Williams
    03 Demolition Man 1994 Williams
    04 The Flintstones 1994 Williams
    05 Popeye Saves The Earth 1994 Bally
    06 Corvette 1994 Bally
    07 The Shadow 1994
    08 Dirty Harry 1995 Williams
    09 Johnny Mnemonic 1995 Williams
    10 Congo 1995 Williams
    11 NBA Fastbreak 1997 Bally
    12 Star Wars Episode 1 1999 Williams

    of those I think the big top 2 are The Shadow (designed by brian Eddy- Medieval Madness, Attack from mars) & Indiana Jones (Mark Ritchie- taxi, dinner, fishtales, sorcerer...)
    we NEED those two

    corvette is actually a good one that probably has no interest or anyone asking for, if you are not a car enthusiast and just ignore the theme it's a bally from 1994, bally didnt know how to make a bad table in 1994, same goes for NBA fastbreak even if you hate sports the table layout is awesome.

    I feel like once Zen figures out what it can and cant get the rights for and has given us a handful of what it can they might try and retheme the impossible rights tables just to not waste all those great layouts and rules. that's probably not going to be a thing for several years though if ever.

  18. #243
    Senior Member Lroy's Avatar
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    The wait is excruciating
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  19. #244
    Senior Member Pete's Avatar
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    oh yeah and i forgot to mention the wild cards... those several tables that probably wont be digitized but could potentially maybe be considered... some of them are not even fully finished but are almost there. like the time in 2005 when bally attempted to make a come back with the Crocodile Hunter, and if that actually released maybe it would have kept them going and making new tables after... but instead they payed 38k for the license to a 3rd party company that didnt actually own the rights to sell and went bankrupt. they did not get that 38k back. It would have been legit but the 3rd party company didnt hand the money off to the real holders yet. and that was the last thing bally ever did. word is they had 1 working unit with playable working rules and but no playfeild art or dmd animations. another more obvious wild card is Revenge from Mars, I feel like that one will happen down the line. and once revenge from mars is figured out with it's weird tech, there's the other wild card table that uses the same system as RFM and SWep1 called Wizard Blocks, a working prototype can be seen on youtube, however the original creator finished it on his own years after the fact, so zen can't actually own the work that completed it without making a deal. Williams had a prototype of Playboy in 1999 and supposedly had a working prototype without playfeild art, they went out of business before it got released. I bet all the tables bally/williams had in the works right as they went out of business would have been some of their best work.

  20. #245
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    oh yeah and i forgot to mention the wild cards... those several tables that probably wont be digitized but could potentially maybe be considered... some of them are not even fully finished but are almost there. like the time in 2005 when bally attempted to make a come back with the Crocodile Hunter, and if that actually released maybe it would have kept them going and making new tables after... but instead they payed 38k for the license to a 3rd party company that didnt actually own the rights to sell and went bankrupt. they did not get that 38k back. It would have been legit but the 3rd party company didnt hand the money off to the real holders yet. and that was the last thing bally ever did. word is they had 1 working unit with playable working rules and but no playfeild art or dmd animations. another more obvious wild card is Revenge from Mars, I feel like that one will happen down the line. and once revenge from mars is figured out with it's weird tech, there's the other wild card table that uses the same system as RFM and SWep1 called Wizard Blocks, a working prototype can be seen on youtube, however the original creator finished it on his own years after the fact, so zen can't actually own the work that completed it without making a deal. Williams had a prototype of Playboy in 1999 and supposedly had a working prototype without playfeild art, they went out of business before it got released. I bet all the tables bally/williams had in the works right as they went out of business would have been some of their best work.
    I've played the working prototype of Playboy, it was very much a whitewood, and most of the animations were static placeholders. I also played the prototype for Wizard Blocks but don't know if that was the completed version you mention or not, but it too was a whitewood.
    I'm just sayin'

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  21. #246
    Member Scared Stiff's Avatar
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    part of the problem of why we arn't seeing something farsight didnt do is they already did all the best stuff that doesn't cost tons of money to do.
    Maybe in a particular kind of pinball..DMD, etc. but not in general. There are still some good tables left unmade, and right at the top of the list is Flash, and Vector. Both unlicensed tables so shouldn’t cost any extra than any of the others Zen hasn’t gotten to yet or have done already.

  22. #247
    Senior Member wolfson's Avatar
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    I don`t waste my time with wanting to know about tables anymore .I have around 200 tables to pick from . just wait for next week and we should find out the new table pack . I`ve had Zen tables from the start , Zen doesn`t bull crap like Farsight did . when announce something it`s usually out in 2 weeks .

  23. #248
    Senior Member Pete's Avatar
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    just for anyone's reference if you did want to drive your self batty speculating possible table releases for the next indefinite amount of years with a complete list of everything ever... here are my goto links where i like to look at all the pictures and dream of what zen could do
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/bally
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/williams

  24. #249
    Senior Member wolfson's Avatar
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    I made a mistake I have 300 tables not 200 . great lists Pete .

  25. #250
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    Wednesday seem the day Zen will announce Pack 5, message just pop up on facebook. God, a 5 month break, it better break the universe!

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