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Thread: Williams' Collection Volume 5 guesses

  1. #326
    Senior Member Cloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    It was Plants vs Zombies and it happened in 2013 IIRC. They did some changes to rule set to make game a bit harder and wiped the leaderboards. It wasn't just a single death threat though but several.
    Thanks for the details shogun00! Zen understandably thus does not take leaderboard wipes lightly.
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  2. #327
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    When Stern puts out a code update, do any in the pinball community raise a fuss over their high scores? Of course not. They hunker down and play another round of pinball.

    This is what frustrates me with leaderboards for digital pinball. I have no sympathy for anyone's 5 hour marathon that they don't wish to repeat. Suck it up, buttercup, and do it again if it's so damn important to you. Why the entire fanbase should suffer with older physics in order to avoid backlash from a VERY small but unfortunately vocal minority is sheer stupidity. Pinball is meant to be played over and over, not a climb to the peak and never do it again experience. A prize fighter doesn't win the title to never defend it again, every sports team starts at square one at the beginning of a season, but for some insane reason leaderboards need to be forever.

    Yep, this is my soapbox and I've been on it since 2013.
    I'm just sayin'

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  3. #328
    Senior Member kimkom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    When Stern puts out a code update, do any in the pinball community raise a fuss over their high scores? Of course not. They hunker down and play another round of pinball.

    This is what frustrates me with leaderboards for digital pinball. I have no sympathy for anyone's 5 hour marathon that they don't wish to repeat. Suck it up, buttercup, and do it again if it's so damn important to you. Why the entire fanbase should suffer with older physics in order to avoid backlash from a VERY small but unfortunately vocal minority is sheer stupidity. Pinball is meant to be played over and over, not a climb to the peak and never do it again experience. A prize fighter doesn't win the title to never defend it again, every sports team starts at square one at the beginning of a season, but for some insane reason leaderboards need to be forever.
    Agreed. And high scores are meant (made) to be reset. It's a fundamental part of pinball.

  4. #329
    Senior Member Pinballwiz45b's Avatar
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    20 leaderboards aren't enough to phase me. It's like what everyone else above said. Not to mention that in order to master pinball, you need not just the knowledge of rules. You need to be able to perform on all different kinds of machines.

    No two machines are the same, and Zen's iterations are no different when they go through with the flipper physics update.

  5. #330
    Senior Member Cloda's Avatar
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    Unfortunately (for me) I lost my fervour for Zen's original tables, exactly because they take forever to get a good score on the leaderboards. My longest single game to date was over 15 hours on Paranormal and I basically played to a score, where after I cut the game short. There is not a chance in hell that I'll try that ever again. That is why the Williams tables for me, as somebody that loves Zen's tables but have outgrown them in a way, is such a breath of fresh air. I have no nostalgic attachment to them or anything as I unfortunately never had access to them in real life, so I'm just as excited about them as I used to get over Zen's own releases. The main reason why I enjoy them so much is much shorter game time, which makes what you guys have been talking about possible, the ability to reach for the top time and time again. Many of Zen's tables never made it possible and I just don't have it in me anymore to ever chase the high scores again. I'll leave that be to the guys that still have that hunger (and time) to go for the top scores.

    I'm thus super keen for Zen to apply the improved physics to the Williams tables and hope that we find that the Universal Monsters is even more refined so that it's flipper physics can be applied to all the previous Volumes. I'll be super happy to chase down top scores again and if they improve the physics even more in future, I'll also hope then that they'll update all their previous packs again.
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  6. #331
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimkom View Post
    Agreed. And high scores are meant (made) to be reset. It's a fundamental part of pinball.
    Very true! Looking at both of my alphanumeric machines (Rollergames and Robocop), the ROM resets the high scores after every 200 games.

  7. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    When Stern puts out a code update, do any in the pinball community raise a fuss over their high scores? Of course not. They hunker down and play another round of pinball.

    This is what frustrates me with leaderboards for digital pinball. I have no sympathy for anyone's 5 hour marathon that they don't wish to repeat. Suck it up, buttercup, and do it again if it's so damn important to you. Why the entire fanbase should suffer with older physics in order to avoid backlash from a VERY small but unfortunately vocal minority is sheer stupidity. Pinball is meant to be played over and over, not a climb to the peak and never do it again experience. A prize fighter doesn't win the title to never defend it again, every sports team starts at square one at the beginning of a season, but for some insane reason leaderboards need to be forever.

    Yep, this is my soapbox and I've been on it since 2013.
    Agree with you here. Dont understand the panic over a leaderboard reset if new physics get implemented.

  8. #333
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    Is zen actually so worried about empty threats and the wrath of the "leaderboard whores" that they would let it delay game development? If true then they also need to suck it up/toughen up. Five months ago, now, or five months from now, whats the difference? if there has to be some kind of leaderboard reset the same people will be salty either way so I don't see what further delaying it accomplishes. Anyway I have a hard time believing this is such a big factor, I think implementing the newer physics simply isn't as high priority as they like you to think it is.

  9. #334
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Baroni View Post
    Is zen actually so worried about empty threats and the wrath of the "leaderboard whores" that they would let it delay game development? If true then they also need to suck it up/toughen up. Five months ago, now, or five months from now, whats the difference? if there has to be some kind of leaderboard reset the same people will be salty either way so I don't see what further delaying it accomplishes. Anyway I have a hard time believing this is such a big factor, I think implementing the newer physics simply isn't as high priority as they like you to think it is.
    I never believed it was a big factor until I talked in depth to one of the guys up at FarSight and heard how much weight is put into decisions that affect leaderboards. And then either Akos or Jeno over at Zen stated they'd need to create an additional leaderboard for Vol 1-3 to accommodate any changes, and it's not as easy as just adding a column to a spreadsheet. There's where your low priority factor comes in, because Deep has already said he's tested the flipper physics on those tables (as well as on some Zen originals) and says it needs some fine tuning, but mostly it works right out the box.
    I'm just sayin'

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  10. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    Very true! Looking at both of my alphanumeric machines (Rollergames and Robocop), the ROM resets the high scores after every 200 games.
    I never knew that some machines did that. Explains how I managed to set a high score on Robocop after about 3 games at a pinball show in May, likely was just a top 5 score in the 2 hours it had been on that morning.

  11. #336
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    Ultimately, the loudest voices get heard the most by other people that might not have given a game a chance. Personally, I'd like to know what my previous high score was with a percentage of how I was ranked. I wouldn't care to see the entire list. No one would.
    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    I never believed it was a big factor until I talked in depth to one of the guys up at FarSight and heard how much weight is put into decisions that affect leaderboards. And then either Akos or Jeno over at Zen stated they'd need to create an additional leaderboard for Vol 1-3 to accommodate any changes, and it's not as easy as just adding a column to a spreadsheet.
    I'm not certain why this can't be built into the system for anticipated changes down the road or simply archive the top 10. Granted, you'd only want to do this once as having multiple archived scores would make it difficult to actually display.

  12. #337
    Senior Member Gorgias32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yespage View Post
    I'm not certain why this can't be built into the system for anticipated changes down the road or simply archive the top 10. Granted, you'd only want to do this once as having multiple archived scores would make it difficult to actually display.
    Absolutely - honestly, I know it's been proposed before, but just put up an "official" web page on the public website that has the "legacy leaderboards pre-version xyz" and pull over the top 10, 20, 100 whatever. That should be a lot less work.than supporting multiple leaderboards in-app.

  13. #338
    Senior Member jrolson's Avatar
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    I just downloaded the new patch on PS4 and only pack 4 has the new flipper physics on classic mode still.. Did they give up on adding the new physics to all tables?

  14. #339
    Senior Member Cloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrolson View Post
    I just downloaded the new patch on PS4 and only pack 4 has the new flipper physics on classic mode still.. Did they give up on adding the new physics to all tables?
    Yeah... unfortunately it will still take a while. The whole preceding discussion in the couple of posts above this is about the leaderboards that need to be reset once the flipper physics update happens.
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  15. #340
    Senior Member gameaddict4life's Avatar
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    Speaking of scores and leaderboards why are there high scores for buy-ins? Is it even possible to get a buy-in score on FX3? The table resets after every game doesn't it? Also it's on free play so....................
    It's all good.

  16. #341
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbers View Post
    I never knew that some machines did that. Explains how I managed to set a high score on Robocop after about 3 games at a pinball show in May, likely was just a top 5 score in the 2 hours it had been on that morning.
    Actually, all pinball machines (that store high scores) have this feature. Some machines have an option to deactivate it (such as WMS tables), while others don't (such as Robocop). You can also adjust the number of plays before the high score reset.

    FWIW, Robocop's max score is 9,999,990 before it rolls back over to zero.

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    There are so many ways around this. It can’t just be the leader boards thing. So many things that you could do to creatively address that issue.

    My suggestion :

    Lock the original leader boards and put an achievement or in game trophy thing like the Williams beta icons out there for beating your old leader board score with the new physics.

    Top 50 or 100 of the old scores get an icon too.

    I’m sure there are plenty of other things you could do ahead of it too. This isn’t even an issue or wiping all of the parts either. Just the classic single scores.

  18. #343
    Senior Member Rayder's Avatar
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    Add a column in the listings for "old physics" and "new physics", then they don't have to erase anything.

  19. #344
    Senior Member Gorgar's Avatar
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    Or just leave the leaderboards and update the tables. I thought the physics update made tables easier anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwil026 View Post
    I noticed that they didn't call this release volume 5. Maybe volume 5 will come shortly too! This looks like a special "Universal Monsters Pack" which I believe is priced around 9.99 USD. Just Hoping!!
    Did they confirm it would be $9.99 (American) for the 2-pack? Never did see that anywhere.

  21. #346
    Member Klopek's Avatar
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    Here's their Twitch stream of the new tables, if anybody wants a sneak peek.

    Quote Originally Posted by djb5f1 View Post
    Did they confirm it would be $9.99 (American) for the 2-pack? Never did see that anywhere.
    I'm pretty certain I saw them respond to a Facebook comment with that information.

  22. #347
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djb5f1 View Post
    Did they confirm it would be $9.99 (American) for the 2-pack? Never did see that anywhere.
    Yes! They confirmed it on their Discord.

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    It is also confirmed that the Creature table is missing two songs

    Im actually curious how the censored version of creature looks like.
    Maybe some of you that allready own this pack can share some light on it.

    It was also mentioned that this new pack got a new physics update different from pack 4.
    Last edited by PinJimmy; 10-24-2019 at 03:22 PM.

  24. #349
    Senior Member gameaddict4life's Avatar
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    Creature is missing two songs? Lame. Is one of them Earth Angel? That's the song that plays after a finished game. The music is one of the best parts of this pin for me. Why must we always get a tasty pizza from Zen but then it's dropped on the floor?
    It's all good.

  25. #350
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    Maybe i have an idea. Make the Zen rankings seasonal. Maybe 4 times a year. When a season ends, people can get medals or other awards, how higher you ranked the better medal you get. Make a hall of fame with all results from all seasons ingame somewhere.

    Zen can update physics before next season starts. Everybody happy, and it gives people a great reason to play again each season.

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