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Thread: Is TPA alone enough for you, or are you also buying into Zenís Williams app?

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    Is TPA alone enough for you, or are you also buying into Zenís Williams app?

    Iím just curious who else finds the TPA app sufficient when they want to play digital pinball?

    Iíve read through the Zen threads, and I have even tried the Williams app.

    However, I was not a fan of how Zenís Williams app was implemented, nor its convoluted in-game monetary system. (Iíve installed and deleted it a few times. It just did not grow on me.)

    After spending a couple of hundred dollars on close to 100 tables in TPA, I also find it hard to repurchase the very same tables in the Zen app.

    And since it looks like Zen wonít even bother with EM tables (a nostalgic favorite), there really isnít much attractive to me at all.

    Now, Iím not trying to denigrate the people who prefer the new app to TPA. Iím sure itís absolutely wonderful if you can get into the whole thing.

    So, if you are also perfectly fine with TPA, please express why youíre sticking with it.

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    Senior Member ZREXMike2's Avatar
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    I like them both, on Zen the first 3 Williams packs all had at least one table I liked, while the 4th had nothing that appealed to me. TPA and Stern TPA have been favorites, wish I could transfer TPA over to XBox1, At least I can still play TPA on XBox360, tho all the cool Williams and Bally tables I neglected to buy b4 the shutdown are no longer available. Someday Zen will get around to replacing all the cool tables like STTNG, T2, NGG, MB, etc, with new physics and all, but it's gonna take a while. Since TPA is doing nothing with the Stern stuff hopefully Zen will get those, too.
    Last edited by ZREXMike2; 06-14-2019 at 07:41 PM.

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    Senior Member Rayder's Avatar
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    I have all of everything from both Farsight's and Zen's productions on PS4. Even though I'm not really a fan of Zen's original tables, I do enjoy pinball in general, so I buy them all just to have them. While Zen's recreations of real life tables are really great, especially the enhanced modes, I still kind of prefer TPA simply because of the wider variety within the app. I'm sure Zen will eventually catch up and even offer some tables not in TPA, but until that happens, TPA is still my goto app for pinball. I'm also not a fan of Zen censoring stuff on real life tables, but I can overlook that as long as it doesn't affect game modes too much.

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    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    If I only played on mobile, I'd probably just stick with TPA, in all honesty.

    But I play on PC and console where the nonsense of Zen's mobile app doesn't exist. And while I am (im)patiently awaiting new-to-digital tables from Zen, there's really just no way I can go back to TPA as my main digital pinball fix after experiencing Zen. Zen's versions blow FarSight's versions so far out of the water that even with the double dipping and smaller selection of tables, FX3 is my go-to now.

    Other than the EMs and the occasional game or two on an SS favorite that isn't in Zen yet, I pretty much don't bother with TPA anymore. And I've given FarSight over $1000. Had my fun with it, moved on to something I enjoy way more now.

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    I have every table in TPA FarSight put out on Steam, as well as SPA. I also have the mobile versions in iOS. My main criticism had been the lighting, as even with the sliders I found there was a general lack of understanding about how light works in the real world. I did find the game play rather easy, but otherwise I was fine with it.

    I already owned every Zen original on Steam. I didn't find myself playing much in FX2, but the FX3 platform changed all that with custom tournaments and improved graphics and physics. I'm not kidding when I say I nearly stopped playing TPA altogether in favor of the Zen originals in FX3. I didn't own any of the games on mobile, other than what was free (Bethesda Pinball, Aliens Pinball, Sorcerers Lair, Empire Strikes Back).

    And then Zen put out Williams Pinball.

    First off, if you are not playing in Classic Single Player, which is where the new Williams physics reside, the reasons for upgrade aren't going to be pronounced. With it though, I simply cannot go back to playing the matching tables in TPA. If the visuals are your thing, there's plenty of reasons for upgrade. The lighting is real world perfect, with full 3 dimensional through as opposed to the flat plane of TPA. Colors are vibrant, not washed out. The plastics are divine, the insert lights aren't blown out, and there is a visual depth to everything. And of course since all of this is wrapped in the confines of the FX3 platform, I am very happy.

    Full disclosure, I get my tables for free from Zen as review copies. That being said, even if I had to buy them myself, I'd at the very least jump all over the sales they've already posted for the first 3 volumes.

    On the mobile side of things, I do not get free copies of anything. I recognize the mess that is the Williams App and have had plenty to say about it. I have managed to earn full ownership of all of Volumes 1-3 without spending one dime, and am currently working my way through Volume 4. If you look past the commerce side of things and focus on the game itself, again I'd say it is superior in every way to TPA. It is not worth the price being asked though. And unless you were on top of it like I was from day one, there's next to no way you'll be able to earn everything for free as I have done either.

    For those wanting a mobile experience, the best option is actually to go out and buy a Switch and then all of Williams on that. Better graphics, bigger screen, tournament creation, landscape or portrait play, none of the freemium headaches.
    I'm just sayin'

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    Senior Member JefferyD's Avatar
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    I bought the first three Zen packs for iPad, and I do like them; I prefer them to the TPA versions. But Iím getting the same feeling; do I really need to buy these again? I think Attack From Mars has been worth it to me, but I probably didnít need all the other ones. Thatís $30 bucks for an upgraded AFM. Bleh. Again, theyíre better, but not better enough that I feel like itís worth it.

    And the in-game currency is horrendous. I managed to purchase the tables outright for the first three packs, but that doesnít seem to be an option for the new pack so forget it.

    I was playing the occasional daily challenge to earn coins so that I could purchase a lighter color ball skin Ė I have a hard time tracking the silver one. Almost had enough to buy one but I accidentally touch/purchased a useless flipper skin while scrolling through. No way Iím going to grind through ďGetawayĒ daily challenges for another 20 hours to have another go at it.

    Iíve been slipping back to TPA quite a bit lately. I missed Big Shot, Gorgar, El Dorado 1&2, Firepower, GenieÖ like you said, tables that Zen probably wonít bother with.

    I might be good with TPA from here on out if Zen doesnít make it possible to buy tables without grinding (no appeal at all) or writing emails to ask if I could please just buy the tables (which Iíve done but probably wonít do again because that doesnít appeal to me at all, either.)

    I might make an exception for Monster Bash. But I donít think I could bring myself to grind for it. Iím going to be a much more of a penny-pincher from here on out, I think. TPA will work for me!

    I really wish it was like all of Zenís other pinball games. I bought JAWS and thought it was great! Didnít have to buy E.T. with it in a pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JefferyD View Post
    I bought the first three Zen packs for iPad, and I do like them; I prefer them to the TPA versions. But I’m getting the same feeling; do I really need to buy these again? I think Attack From Mars has been worth it to me, but I probably didn’t need all the other ones. That’s $30 bucks for an upgraded AFM. Bleh. Again, they’re better, but not better enough that I feel like it’s worth it.

    And the in-game currency is horrendous. I managed to purchase the tables outright for the first three packs, but that doesn’t seem to be an option for the new pack so forget it.

    I was playing the occasional daily challenge to earn coins so that I could purchase a lighter color ball skin – I have a hard time tracking the silver one. Almost had enough to buy one but I accidentally touch/purchased a useless flipper skin while scrolling through. No way I’m going to grind through “Getaway” daily challenges for another 20 hours to have another go at it.

    I’ve been slipping back to TPA quite a bit lately. I missed Big Shot, Gorgar, El Dorado 1&2, Firepower, Genie… like you said, tables that Zen probably won’t bother with.

    I might be good with TPA from here on out if Zen doesn’t make it possible to buy tables without grinding (no appeal at all) or writing emails to ask if I could please just buy the tables (which I’ve done but probably won’t do again because that doesn’t appeal to me at all, either.)

    I might make an exception for Monster Bash. But I don’t think I could bring myself to grind for it. I’m going to be a much more of a penny-pincher from here on out, I think. TPA will work for me!

    I really wish it was like all of Zen’s other pinball games. I bought JAWS and thought it was great! Didn’t have to buy E.T. with it in a pack.
    The big reason why TPA appeals to me (beyond Zen’s horrendous (IMO) business model for the Williams app), is its variety of tables. If I’m in the mood for a 70s-era EM, a late-70s/early-80s SS, or a more-complex modern table, TPA has me covered.

    I recently grabbed the AC/DC & Star Trek special (both tables for $10), and have been digging Star Trek quite a bit.

    I love being able to choose between any of the 97 tables I’ve bought – without the concern of ridiculous in-game currency, nor grinding away on a table that might not appeal to me.

    (BTW, your description of the Williams app daily challenge and 20-hour grinds makes me happy I got out early. Still, if people enjoy it, then that’s fine as well. I just don’t have that kind of stamina.)

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    Moderator Jeff Strong's Avatar
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    I enjoyed TPA in its early days, but the thrill was gone long ago for me. I do, however, agree with Citzen that it’s still a solid option if you’re a mobile player.

    I was skeptical about Zen getting the Williams license because I wasn’t sure if they’d bother with realistic physics since that had never been their bag. Thankfully my doubts were quickly allieviated. It’s unfortunate that the biggest complaint a lot of people have about Zen’s Williams is the app itself because the actual pinball is the best we’ve ever seen in digital form. Thankfully the PC/consoles don’t have the weirdness because I don’t play on mobile. When I play pinball, I want a big ass screen, real pinball buttons, and enough bass to shake things up a bit.

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    Senior Pigeon Kolchak357's Avatar
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    I’m a mobile only player. Play strictly on an iPad. I buy all the Zen tables they let me buy. But I rarely play them because I can’t play in landscape mode. I think they look and play better than TPA, but I play TPA much more. Until Zen comes out with landscape play or releases pins I don’t own on TPA there won’t be much excitement from me. I buy the Zen Williams pins more to support digital pinball than for the enjoyment.
    So I guess to answer the question, Is TPA enough for me.....yes, it is.....but I’m still buying Zen Williams based on what I hope it will become. I might give you a totally different answer if I played on other platforms.

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    Very enlightening responses. I appreciate the insights.

    Since I only play on my iPad, I never really thought about Steam or other ways people might be enjoying their digital pinball games.

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    Im playing both, and have bought everything of Williams Zen Pinball, and having more fun playing some table by Zen than TPA ( as example, Party Zone, Black Rose, White Water went up in my ratings after trying Zen version ). I just like gameplay better, even with the non simulation physics ). As a lot can say, the way the app is done on IOS is a bit of a bummer, like now i have to wait to see a deal to buy the 3 latest table , but passing that, its just a better experience to play in Zen than TPA.

    But TPA still there, they got some EM, older pinballs, and Stern pinball, and there is no reason atm i can just concentrate on one game. Zen deliver imo a better experience, but TPA is still a good game to play. I would play TPA and buy exerything that could come out in the future , sometime wishing they release like a new season of old EM Gottlieb pins, i would not hesitate to buy then. I think their slower engine make them feel better there.

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    Steam can be mobile sometimes as well. There is the obvious option of using a gaming laptop (which is what I have as a secondary system, although lately I've been using it more to watch telly in the bath rather than what I bought it for originally), pricey option which should become available soonish is https://www.smachz.com/shop/ and budget option if its just for use around the home is something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v-jDHp6fak

    Pick one of those and don't need to put up with any of the c**p in mobile apps, just that they won't fit in a pocket.

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    TPA & SPA are still my favourite to play for my Pinball fix, as other's have already mentioned there is just so much more variety within the two Farsight apps.

    I play on PS4 Pro, my biggest issue with Zen and PFX3 is that we are now up to pack 4 of Bally/Williams tables and they are still censoring these "Classic" tables on consoles, to me this is just unforgivable, IMO the changes they make to these tables are ridiculous.

    If Zen Studios stick by their needless censoring then I just can't see how they will ever release tables like Gorgar, Scared Stiff, Bride of the Pinbot etc. to name just a few, so I think there will always be great tables in the two Farsight apps that may never get released for PFX3, I also wonder how long it will be before PFX3 can match TPA/SPA on licensed themed tables, in TPA/SPA you have loads, AC-DC, Ghostbusters, Addams Family, T2, Twilight Zone, Last Action Hero, Dr Who, Star Trek, Star Trek TNG, Frankenstein and Dracula etc. etc. it could be years before PFX3 can match this sort of line up, if ever!

    My only real issue with TPA is that I wish they'd carried on fixing issues with it, Tom Devaney from Farsight was doing fantastic work on the PS4 version and it is so much better than it used to be thanks to him, but, further improvements would have been appreciated but sadly he seems to have completely disappeared from these forums nowadays.

    Other than that I just wish Farsight would release some new tables, they still supposedly have the Stern license "at the moment" so I wish they'd use it as there are so many good Stern tables they could still release.

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    How is Zen censoring the classic tables? Language?

    I play on PS4 and much prefer Zen to TPA, although admittedly most of my favorites are not real tables. Better physics, gameplay, graphics, and features (I enjoy the challenges and unlocking characters for each table)

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djb5f1 View Post
    How is Zen censoring the classic tables? Language?

    I play on PS4 and much prefer Zen to TPA, although admittedly most of my favorites are not real tables. Better physics, gameplay, graphics, and features (I enjoy the challenges and unlocking characters for each table)
    On console they use the Ďfamily modeí setting which alters certain DMD imagery like the dragon eating people in Medieval Madness. They also alter cab and play field art; depictions of alcohol, tobacco, blood/gore, and any sign of cleavage or bare skin near the thighs gets covered up.

    This was all self censorship to retain the ESRB rating they had with FX3 already. Apparently they had a run-in with them on a previous game and it cost a lot of money in penalties to correct. They could resubmit for the same rating and just have a longer list of warnings, but thatís a whole process on console and requires getting recertifications from Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. Steam and mobile donít care if your ESRB card is wrong, thus no censorship.

    Iíll bring it up again next time I interview Mel, see if thereís been any progress. My gut tells me after Volume 6 is done, maybe then something happens. Theyíll be able to show all the depictions and why the rating can remain. The only foreseeable title that would pose an issue is Elvira, but they could just toss that in at the same time as a placeholder. Mel said horror is particularly tricky with the rating, but theyíve navigated those waters with Doom and Aliens so weíll see.

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    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    I do still hope that the censorship can eventually go away on console. That remains one of my biggest wants for FX3. Even if they still had to do forced family mode on tables that had it, at least that would still be true to the original tables. But they really do need to resubmit for the proper, original, unaltered table art.

    Because green beer is just pathetically stupid.
    Last edited by Citizen; 06-15-2019 at 01:41 PM.

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    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I do still hope that the censorship can eventually go away on console. That remaims one of my biggest wants for FX3. Even if they still had to do forced family mode on tables that had it, at least that would still be true to the original tables. But they really do need to resubmit for the proper, original, unaltered table art.

    Because green beer is just pathetically stupid.
    Pretend you are playing a St. Patrick's Day mod.

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    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    That's what it makes me think of too, yeah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trash80 View Post
    Pretend you are playing a St. Patrick's Day mod.
    That certainly works on Champion Pub.

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    I missed the boat on Williams Pinball Arcade but I've drooled over the list. Having played what is there and bought a couple of their packs and then played what is in Zen I can believe that the Zen tables are miles better than the Pinball Arcade ones were. That being said if I already owned the Pinball Arcade ones I can't say I would be bothering with Zen. Maybe if I could buy the tables outright I would slowly convert but given what was there and the hoops Zen makes you jump through if I had the option I'd pay Pinball Arcade for their whole set today.

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    Senior Member Blkthorne's Avatar
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    I own all the tables for TPA and usually when Zen announces what the next pack will be I will log into TPA and take those tables for a spin, but with the inactivity of Farsight and the great improvement of the tables by Zen, it is tough for me to find any motivation to play TPA on a regular basis.

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    Senior Member Gorgias32's Avatar
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    They play completely differently. I used to think that Hurricane on TPA, for instance, was a really great, fast, smooth shooter. But playing it in Zen has made me it feel floaty.

    I do still play a bit of TPA for some of my favorite SS tables, Eight Ball Deluxe, Fathom, F14 etc. - there's still nothing like them on Zen. I also use the instructions section of TPA for both the Zen tables and other games that I play in real life - honestly they are done so well, and so thoroughly, that they are worth the price of admission on their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    On console they use the ‘family mode’ setting which alters certain DMD imagery like the dragon eating people in Medieval Madness. They also alter cab and play field art; depictions of alcohol, tobacco, blood/gore, and any sign of cleavage or bare skin near the thighs gets covered up.

    This was all self censorship to retain the ESRB rating they had with FX3 already. Apparently they had a run-in with them on a previous game and it cost a lot of money in penalties to correct. They could resubmit for the same rating and just have a longer list of warnings, but that’s a whole process on console and requires getting recertifications from Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. Steam and mobile don’t care if your ESRB card is wrong, thus no censorship.

    I’ll bring it up again next time I interview Mel, see if there’s been any progress. My gut tells me after Volume 6 is done, maybe then something happens. They’ll be able to show all the depictions and why the rating can remain. The only foreseeable title that would pose an issue is Elvira, but they could just toss that in at the same time as a placeholder. Mel said horror is particularly tricky with the rating, but they’ve navigated those waters with Doom and Aliens so we’ll see.
    Good info, I did not realize. I will have to compare some of the tables knowing this.

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    Senior Member rehtroboi40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgias32 View Post
    They play completely differently. I used to think that Hurricane on TPA, for instance, was a really great, fast, smooth shooter. But playing it in Zen has made me it feel floaty.

    I do still play a bit of TPA for some of my favorite SS tables, Eight Ball Deluxe, Fathom, F14 etc. - there's still nothing like them on Zen. I also use the instructions section of TPA for both the Zen tables and other games that I play in real life - honestly they are done so well, and so thoroughly, that they are worth the price of admission on their own.
    I'd be surprised to see any of the tables you've mentioned in PFX3. That's one reason I'll keep TPA as long as I can. The other being Zen screwing up tables that TPA got right. Sure, Road Show and White Water look so much better than TPA, but Zen has "Zaccaria'd" the ramps making them impossible to hit. Also, I'll stick to WH2O in TPA because Zen's mistreatment of the music gives me a splitting headache. I don't think Zen will fix that.

    I do wish Farsight would add some more Gottliebs and Premiers, but I think TPA is over for good. But I'm still happy for the tables they did bring and I'm pleased that I snagged them all before the licenses expired. Since I'll be getting a new computer soon, I'll take the one I'm using offline so that way I'll always have access to TPA in it's final form, at least until this computer goes down once and for all.
    After User, the same five patterns repeat.

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    Senior Member Firefox2000's Avatar
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    I have all but the last PA table pack on steam as none of those tables took my fancy, on the PS4 i have both retail disc versions of PBA, but this is the first time i have bought Williams tables on the xbox since the 360, so i have been buying the Williams table on PBFX3 on both PC and XBX, and have really enjoyed them.
    Steam: The Omega Man
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