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Thread: Pinball FX (4) is EPIC Exclusive and Unreal Engine

  1. #51
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    I agree, never make a purchase based on promises to come, always make it based on what is in front of you.

    There's still a lot of time between now and release (we suspect at the latest August, but no earlier than June) and that means lots of the nitty gritty details and final specs are a ways from being locked. As much as Zen wants to avoid feature creep, I think pressuring them to have things like 120fps at launch is essential for convincing people to make the leap.

    Also Narc0lep5y, I really appreciated your very level headed counter argument to Epic Game Store, as you brought up a lot of very valid points especially regarding 'quality of life' features. Truly some good discussion points I know neither I nor Jared had thought of.
    I'm just sayin'

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  2. #52
    Senior Member CycOd3liC's Avatar
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    I'm not going to bother with EPIC unless the experience is substantially better.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Crazy Newt's Avatar
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    On the brighter side, I am excited that digital pinball in a mainstream format will continue to exist and advance. The consoles and mobile devices have much larger markets to consider, and while there are strings attached when developing for these, at least the platforms are relatively stable compared to the the Wild West that makes up PC gaming rigs. It doesn't seem like the Steam/Epic situation is the highest priority for measured success. I hope it all works out and brings about more pinball goodness that I can enjoy. I truly enjoy the current William's collection of tables in Pinball FX3, especially on my PC. I'm happy that a new version will be released that I will be able to continue playing on a PC.

  4. #54
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Newt View Post
    On the brighter side, I am excited that digital pinball in a mainstream format will continue to exist and advance.
    Exactly. People worried that focusing resources on the 3/4 cabs was to the detriment of tables being released, but look at how people are clamoring to buy them. Zen had 2 choices essentially with graphics engines, Unity or Unreal. Apparently they used Unity for the Williams mobile app, while they used Unreal for Operencia, Dread Nautical, and Castle Storm 2. Whenever you use a 3rd party engine, you are going to have to pay a licensing fee for it. That of course factors in with all the other license you have to pay with these pinball tables. I have heard with Unreal a studio can use it without licensing fees (or greatly reduced) if it sells under a certain threshold. I don't know if signing the exclusivity deal is part of that too or not. Point being, Zen very well could have looked at all the fees they'd be having to pay with each DLC download, what they'd need in return to turn a profit (because this IS a business), and seen that to do so would cost the consumer more. So you go with the option that ensures the future of your studio best.

    Not that FarSight doesn't exist anymore, but did anyone really expect they'd drop off the face of the pinball map after losing the Williams license? Pinball Wicked was supposed to be a collection of tables, yet they've been stuck on Black Flaggers for years. Pro Pinball had so much going for it, but couldn't keep their doors open. I want Zen to succeed with their 10 year plan for the future, I'm glad they are not willing to rest on their laurels. If all goes well, this moment of unrest in the community will be but a blip and mostly forgotten. If it all goes sideways, well we'll know that moment too.
    I'm just sayin'

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    I didn't post anything from this clearly biased subreddit (but it's existence also kind of confirms there's a problem) because the name of the sub - "F**kEpic"

    If that doesn't offend you and you want way more detail with links, on why it's not just an installer, feel free to peruse the 2020 FAQ with tons of links if you want. I think some are a stretch but some are valid.

    Link

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Zen had 2 choices essentially with graphics engines, Unity or Unreal.
    Not just those two. Amazon Lumberyard which sprang from buying CryEngine are both also out there.

    Probably the two highest profile projects that Lumberyard is currently being used in are Star Citizen (alpha) and New World (also in alpha).

    Per the link

    Amazon Lumberyard
    Free. Powerful. Fully Customizable.

    We believe game developers deserve another choice. That’s why we’re building Lumberyard: a game engine with no royalties or seat fees, frictionless integration with Twitch and AWS, plus much more on the horizon.

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    Senior Member trash80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc0lep5y View Post
    Not just those two. Amazon Lumberyard which sprang from buying CryEngine are both also out there.

    Probably the two highest profile projects that Lumberyard is currently being used in are Star Citizen (alpha) and New World (also in alpha).

    Per the link
    Lumberyard is not currently a viable choice for a studio with milestones and deadlines to meet. Unity and Unreal are really the only off the shelf multi-platform 3D engines that provide the necessary developer base, resource library and active support that a professional studio requires for success.
    Last edited by trash80; 03-28-2021 at 09:07 AM.

  8. #58
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    Fair enough. I’m not a developer but got most of my info from this series

    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...-right-for-you



  9. #59
    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Also Unreal and Unity are fully supported by Oculus for the Quest 2, which I'm sure also factored in.
    I'm just sayin'

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  10. #60
    Moderator Jeff Strong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post
    Also Narc0lep5y, I really appreciated your very level headed counter argument to Epic Game Store, as you brought up a lot of very valid points especially regarding 'quality of life' features. Truly some good discussion points I know neither I nor Jared had thought of.
    Agreed. That was very well said. Definitely some good food for thought.

  11. #61
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    Thanks guys. At the end of the day, I think we all just want good pinball experiences. The Epic deal is pretty much done, unfortunately, so now all we can do is wait for it to play out and hopefully, we can influence enough of the development to bridge the already identified gaps between stores and users. If that fails we can at least protect ourselves by being aware, so our gaming and pinball passions aren't used against us.

  12. #62
    Senior Member Pinballwiz45b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc0lep5y View Post
    I didn't post anything from this clearly biased subreddit (but it's existence also kind of confirms there's a problem) because the name of the sub - "F**kEpic"

    If that doesn't offend you and you want way more detail with links, on why it's not just an installer, feel free to peruse the 2020 FAQ with tons of links if you want. I think some are a stretch but some are valid.

    Link
    https://tinyurl.com/y973mjzm because the swear word is censored in the above

  13. #63
    Moderator jaredmorgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post

    Also Narc0lep5y, I really appreciated your very level headed counter argument to Epic Game Store, as you brought up a lot of very valid points especially regarding 'quality of life' features. Truly some good discussion points I know neither I nor Jared had thought of.
    Chris beat me to it but I also wanted to give @Narc0lep5y props for this post.

    That was one of the most level-headed bits of discourse I've had the pleasure of reading about Epic since the announcement.

    Thanks for taking the time to put your case forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinballwiz45b View Post
    https://tinyurl.com/y973mjzm because the swear word is censored in the above
    Blimey, thats a long read, and that is without clicking on any of the links in it.

    So far the only Epic exclusive I would have bought if it was on Steam is Hitman 3 - the first one I got free with the last graphics card I got, and I even pre-ordered the second one. I'll buy it when it does come on steam, but part of the value of that is in elusive targets that will have already gone by then so its value is less than at launch so as I'll have waited so long by then I'll probably wait for the 50% off sale, so probably steam summer sale 2022.

    Rocket League is the other one I should have bought the base version before it went off steam, just never got around to it.

    Not 100% decided with Pinball FX, but certainly leaning towards the wait until its on steam option (+Android if they add more to the Williams app) unless purchases on Epic are guaranteed to be transferable to steam which doesn't seem likely that they would.

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