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Thread: Multiple FX Pinball announcements today, plus first looks!

  1. #51
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    Still in for Indy and Noir. Most likely the other Williams tables.

    Hopefully the Bethesda and Alien tables make it. Really the only other legacy tables I'm interested in purchasing again.

    Pinball Pass pricing seemed like a miss. $15 a month or $100 a year. Would rather spend the $100 on tickets and own the tables for as long as Pinball FX lasts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zmcvay View Post
    March 31st, sadly except for Indy you can't purchase tables with money, you have to buy tickets and turn those into table purchases.

    Purchase tickets in bundles of 100 ($9.99), 220 ($19.99), 575 ($49.99), and 1200 ($99.99)
    So, the cost of the tables depends on how much money you spend on tickets. A ticket costs 8.3 cents at $100 purchase and 10 cents at $10 purchase.

    So new licensed tables are $5 for people that put in $100 and $6 for people that put in $10. And if you put in $10, that means you have 40 more tickets, not enough for FX3 legacy table.

    Not a fan of this system. They are making you to pay for something you aren't even buying. A "$6" table could actually cost you $10. Want 6 Williams tables, that'll be $30 for "$27" of tables. Yes, first world problems and all, but I'm a fan of a price tag. Yes, the cost is about the same as it was. But the accounting gimmick bothers me.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by yespage View Post
    So, the cost of the tables depends on how much money you spend on tickets. A ticket costs 8.3 cents at $100 purchase and 10 cents at $10 purchase.

    So new licensed tables are $5 for people that put in $100 and $6 for people that put in $10. And if you put in $10, that means you have 40 more tickets, not enough for FX3 legacy table.

    Not a fan of this system. They are making you to pay for something you aren't even buying. A "$6" table could actually cost you $10. Want 6 Williams tables, that'll be $30 for "$27" of tables. Yes, first world problems and all, but I'm a fan of a price tag. Yes, the cost is about the same as it was. But the accounting gimmick bothers me.
    Zen's customers were asking for discounts in lieu of games porting over. This seems to be a way of offering discounts not only to previous customers but to new customers as well. The more you spend, the steeper the discount. This is not the exact equivalent of offering bigger discounts to customers who had bought more tables but it's close enough.

    The 33% discount for first week customers I have mixed feelings about. I'm not on PC so I'd be hit with a pretty big price penalty if I choose to buy in later. Of course, I could wait until all tables are re-released on Steam but that's a year long wait, which is a steep penalty of another kind!

    Zen is allowing stacking of discounts so the savings are pretty substantial if you opt to buy everything week 1.

    They're also letting you know that the steam version will almost certainly have physics upgrades and that may be enough of an enticement to purchase tables again since they will not port over.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinballmonster View Post
    The 33% discount for first week customers I have mixed feelings about. I'm not on PC so I'd be hit with a pretty big price penalty if I choose to buy in later. Of course, I could wait until all tables are re-released on Steam but that's a year long wait, which is a steep penalty of another kind!
    .
    Since it’s all in app purchases wouldn’t the only thing released on steam that would be purchasable be the premium licensed tables (Indy)? The ticketing system and prices would be handled on Zens end.

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    Senior Member Scared Stiff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crawley View Post
    Still in for Indy and Noir. Most likely the other Williams tables.

    Pinball Pass pricing seemed like a miss. $15 a month or $100 a year. Would rather spend the $100 on tickets and own the tables for as long as Pinball FX lasts.
    Indeed. I pay only $5 a month for Apple Arcade and get not only a lot of Zen’s tables but also access to over 200 other games. So $15 for just Zen by itself is way out of whack compared to that.

  6. #56
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    Zen has their Epic money up front. They are going to price tables high and get early adopters cash in hand while they can.
    They are trying to get the early adopters for top dollar. 33% off at launch is a deal? It's still $2.70 per table for Zen originals. The Zen classics pack for FX3 has 4 tables for $10 which is $2.50 each not on sale. Even the 3 per $10 table is not much more than that. I loved seeing Adventure land in the previews to remember when they gave it away for free as a thank you only to realize that this time the thank you is a 33% discount.

    Prices wont stay this high. Sales will be frequent. Be patient. Don't pay now based on future promises like cabinet mode. Pay when they deliver. Don't be surprised when they charge for cabinet mode too. Charging premium prices for early access is all part of the cash grab. They want to create value to push into the monthly sub.

    and $14.99 per month is crazy pricing. Feed the beast at your peril.

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    My understanding is that zen hired a lot of new developers to get this launch out as soon as possible. Talented developers don't come cheap either to hire or retain.

    I'm still baffled by those people who want all of these tables for free AGAIN. It requires a lot of time and effort to improve existing tables and to create originals. Zen is not a charity. They need money to stay in business. The more money they have, the more effectively they can compete to hire the best talent, resulting in better quality products down the road.

    The better the product, they more they can and should charge. The tables look great and if I were on PC, I'd be buying them all immediately week 1.

  8. #58
    Senior Member gameaddict4life's Avatar
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    Of course the ticket system doesn't work out in the customers favor. 300+ dollars for all the tables? Zen has released 100 tables and the top ticket amount gets you all the day one tables which is 37 not including Indy for an extra 15? Hoepfully the console release will be better in terms of pricing. The subscription is even worse and doesn't include the premium tables from the sound of it. Also the Williams tables were not specifically mentioned in the pricing. Zaccaria pinball is a much better deal, at least on console. You can get everything for around 70 dollars. It's a few releases behind the PC version but still.

    I'll try the new Pinball FX but unless those new physics blow me away and the censorship is gone the price is just too steep.
    It's all good.

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    Another bizarre assumption: what is compelling much less FORCING zen's customer base to buy ALL of their 100 tables?!?

    I have all of the Williams tables on mobile and Mac desktop but only a handful of zen originals, mainly due to having a chance to play them on Apple Arcade. I have no interest in playing bob's burgers pinball, for instance. I purchased the Darth Vader table by accident and it's dull and repetitive. The zen originals with zen physics are by and large not especially challenging and it must take hours to produce a top score.

    Clearly, some titles are better than others and I just don't see any clear reason to buy all of them once much less the entire lot multiple times over.

    The lack of selectivity and/or inexplicable need to own EVERYTHING this company produces seems more the source of the problem rather than zen's pricing model. Whatever happened to self control?

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    Pricing isn't my problem, the method of not being able to purchase tables is. The cost is a bit higher now, fine, but I don't like paying for tickets that can only be used by buying more tickets.

  11. #61
    Senior Member zmcvay's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't like the Money=>Tickets=>Table Purchases at all unless there are options to buy exactly the amount of tickets I need to cover the purchases I want, and even then it's usually just a way to obscure pricing. And while I appreciate the fact that tables are cheaper if you buy more tables at once or right after release, it just encourages binge purchasing.

    But I'm not upset about it at all. I have Pinball FX3 on my PC, Playstation and Switch. I've got the full collection of tables on PC (minus Indy) that I slowly added over the last several years. Hell, I still play Pinball FX2 on occasion when I want to boot up the tables that didn't make the FX3 switch. None of those are going away. If Zen has put the work into solid physics and visual upgrades as well as back end improvements, then I am all for rebuying tables over time.

    I'm not sure what I'll purchase when it goes live tomorrow, but I'll try whatever free tables they have available first and that will influence my decision. Almost certainly I'll pick up the three new Zen tables, Noir and the Mummy especially look like fun. I want to get Indy on my PC, so that's a lock. I'll likely get the Mandalorian and Classic Collectibles. I enjoy playing those in VR, but I don't always want to play in VR. Other than that? Depends on how much I like the improvements from FX3 to FX. But I'm almost certainly not plunking down $125 for the whole day 1 roster unless I'm blown away. I certainly don't need to rebuy things like Biolab.

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    Gotta wonder how the ticket system will play with storefront sales. You can’t wishlist a table if it’s not purchasable on the egs storefront. They are certainly pushing wishlist for the main fx title on every video so Its clearly important to them. I guess we’ll see if they have an alternative to that soon enough.

    I also don’t see how you bring in new users through a sale if you have to log into the game to see what tables are on sale. They could put ticket packs on sale but if you’re not a current player those have no value to you either. Sales would basically be only to the current user base and that’s not conducive to growing an already small market.



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    I was expecting price increase for a new system but this system with tickets is horrible. Idea of Pinball Pass is good but pricing is way too high.

    Both things created such a negative wave against Zen that it will take a lot to remove bad feeling that many have at this moment - just check Reddit or other forums. You cannot find single one which approves new model. There are some which are saying that they will buy tables anyway but vast majority of comments are negative. This could be compared only by announcement event of original XBOX One, which was real disaster.

    I was also expecting bigger discounts for people which already have FX3 tables, at least 50%. Now, i don't think that I will buy again any table that I already have, unless it is so much better than FX3 version like FX3 versions were better than TPA ones.
    Last edited by Iga_Biva; 03-31-2022 at 12:26 AM.

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    Senior Member zmcvay's Avatar
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    Didn't have much time to mess with it, but seemed to run fine on my PC, looked nice. Only played the free Mummy table so far. Amused that buying all tables is exactly 13 more tickets than the largest bundle of purchasable tickets.

    I could play tables in Portrait mode fine, but the main interface didn't handle it well. Will play around with it more tonight.

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    When you get more time to play around, please elaborate on the "looked nice" part. I think FX3 looks "nice". I personally need a serious wow improvement to consider this.

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    Senior Member zmcvay's Avatar
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    Didn't notice any obvious problems right away is what I meant. But the program itself is free as are two rotating tables, so you can check easily yourself. I haven't put any money down yet either.

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    A side by side comparison of FX vs FX3. I too think of it as a small but nice upgrade in visuals.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoCcx2jiTEY

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    Senior Member Crazy Newt's Avatar
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    How are the pro physics? Going to check it out later tonight.

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    The physics do feel a bit different. Like the ball is heavier. I played Safe Cracker in Pinball FX for awhile then switched over to FX3 and noticed the ball was a lot quicker/lighter in FX3.

    I want to check what the FPS is on Pinball FX but not seeing a way to enable it in Epic Games launcher. I'm getting 120 fps in FX3 and wondering if like 60 or something in Pinball FX which might be one reason the physics seem different.

    As far as graphic changes, for the Williams tables at least, it's a pretty minor upgrade. Would really need a side-by-side comparison. Going from one app to the other you'd be hard pressed to call out the differences. I can say that turning on/off ray tracing does make a change to the lighting on the table - typically darkening the table a bit. You can see the change by just switching that option on/off even when looking through the transparent menu. It's not a huge difference though - maybe makes the table look a little less flat and the balls a bit more reflective.

    The sound of the Williams tables are a bit low compared to the rest of the table sounds. I didn't see a way to turn up just the ROM sounds. Can still hear everything, just want it louder. So hopefully that would be address at some point.

    I'm sure one of the YouTubers will do a comprehensive look at the differences between the apps. But I think people will be happy with FX3 until new Williams tables start appearing in PinballFX.

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    Would like to support it, but I currently have so bad input delay with my wireless Xbox controller....it's much worse than on FX3, making the new game currently unplayable for me.

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    I wouldn't characterize this launch as a disaster, but it does seem riddled with problems at every turn.

    The concerns and criticisms about pricing are shared on every platform I've seen: YouTube, reddit, steam, etc.

    Also, the technical issues seem serious. Players on higher end systems are experiencing overheating, flipper lag, poor FPS, performance hits when turning on RT, HDR not working properly, etc.

    There are still bugs in FX3/mobile but they seem relatively minor in comparison and some of the more serious issues were immediately identified and solved quickly (funhouse cabinet mode).

    There is definitely something very wrong internally with the company.

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    Senior Member Crazy Newt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karussellbremser View Post
    Would like to support it, but I currently have so bad input delay with my wireless Xbox controller....it's much worse than on FX3, making the new game currently unplayable for me.
    What video card are you using? Nvidia has a few options that might help.

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    Thank you, yes I'm using Nvidia but what helped was simply turning Vertical Sync off in the in-game video options. Now the lag is acceptable.

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    Senior Member BostonBuckeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zmcvay View Post
    Didn't have much time to mess with it, but seemed to run fine on my PC, looked nice. Only played the free Mummy table so far. Amused that buying all tables is exactly 13 more tickets than the largest bundle of purchasable tickets.

    I could play tables in Portrait mode fine, but the main interface didn't handle it well. Will play around with it more tonight.
    How did you get it to work in Portrait mode? All of the in-game resolutions look to be for Landscape mode. I thought the game would automatically make the adjustment if I launched with my monitor rotated to Portrait, but this is not the case. Also, how do you turn off the special effects? I don't see anything listed under options.

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    Senior Member zmcvay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonBuckeye View Post
    How did you get it to work in Portrait mode? All of the in-game resolutions look to be for Landscape mode. I thought the game would automatically make the adjustment if I launched with my monitor rotated to Portrait, but this is not the case. Also, how do you turn off the special effects? I don't see anything listed under options.
    Just got home and rechecked. I started the game in Portrait mode, it reset my video options from this morning, but Portrait mode resolutions were available. Just picked up Indy at least and was able to play that in portrait as well.

    It's pretty obvious the game isn't set up fully for portrait yet though, the tables I played were fine, but the UI isn't handling it well for the main menu.

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