Side by side comparison with a real table

Slam23

Active member
Jul 21, 2012
1,279
2
Hi guys,

Don't know if it is of interest to anybody, but I like to do a side by side comparison with the real table I get to play once every month at the "clubhouse" of the DPA (Dutch Pinball Association). I'm currently at 7.6B on the TPA version, and I'm slowly getting better on the real table, going towards the 1B. I have probably around 30 games now under my belt.
Disclaimer: real tables can offcourse be wildly different from each other sometimes because of differences in wear/tear, flipper/coil strength and particular setup (angle and such). Tables at the DPA clubhouse are usually in good condition though, no mechanical problems that I'm aware of.

So here it goes (comparisons are described from the standpoint of the real table with the TPA if not otherwise specified):
Skill shot: spot on for both rollover and Kiss shot, but dead pass from left to right after full plunge gives a wild ball on the real table
Kiss shot from right flipper: spot on, a tad easier on the real table
Left (and right) menu targets: less sensitive on the real table, you have to hit them harder and on a more straight angle. Glance shots won't usually trigger them. So glancing them with right flipper shots to the left ramp and then alternating them with bumper hits to the left menu targets to open the snackbar is out as option. This makes completing the snackbar after the first time more difficult (snackbar shots don't trigger the targets anymore from that point on).
Left ramp: more difficult from the right flipper on the real table. You have to be more precise, glancing shots quickly lose momentum and will roll back. The good news is that this won't produce a wild ball although there are more ricochets from ramp and ramp posts than on the TPA table. You also hit the right ramp post more often with unprecise shots to the left ramp, this is more forgiving on the TPA table. Backhanding from the left is way more difficult, also loses momentum very fast, I couldn't hit that shot on a real table with any consistent succes. Overall this makes combo/double feature, unlimited millions and multiball creature ramp shots more difficult.
Middle shot: spot on from both left and right, feels exactly the same. Even incomplete shots that roll back look and feel exactly the same, with the same ricochets and return angle.
Snack bar shot: spot on from both left and right when you hit the flipper sweet spot. A tad more difficult from the left, probably because of the less straight angle, I can make that shot more consistently on TPA but they compare favorably. Making the snack bar shot is also considerably less risky on the real table when your aim is a bit off. Especially the in your face SDTM drain from hitting the left side of the snack bar won't happen. This makes actually aiming for the Menu targets a valid option, balls don't get as wild on the real table.
Right ramp: spot on for the left flipper, also for making them in rapid succession. But there are more ricochets when you hit the side of the ramp and incomplete shots make faster SDTM drains. Backhanding from the right is way more difficult because of the angle.
"Slide shot": way more difficult on the real table. That's a real precise shot you have to make, and it's near impossible with a dead ball, you have to have it rolling to hit it consistently.
Return ramp that feeds the right flipper after Kiss and snackbar shots: spot on, trappable like on the TPA table, same speed and momentum.
Rollover and bumper area: this is the biggest difference in my opinion. Where it's possibile to get up to 2-3 times full multiplier upgrades from one ball being continuously in that area on TPA, you'll be lucky to get one bounce up from the bumpers into one rollover on the real table. This is not about strength/reactivity of the bumpers although they seem a bit more powerful on the TPA table, it's more about the angle at which balls bounce up, they just seem to be less straight. This offcourse severly impacts not only getting the L in FILM, which now requires more center shots to the rollover area, it also limits the multiplier bonus at the end of the ball, usually not more than 2x-4x on a good ball (without specifically aiming for the rollovers). Return balls from bumper area are easily dead-passed from right to left flipper, just as on the TPA table.
Creature/ramp-whirlpool: exactly spot on. The speed with which balls roll through the ramp and the amount of cycles in the whirlpool are just right. Balls from the whirlpool are trappable, even somewhat easier than on the TPA table, on which they sometimes accelerate a bit and risk a drain.
Outlanes: less dangerous than on the TPA table, especially the left one.

Final verdict: Overall, I think Farsight succeeded in it's transfer, easier in some places, harder in others. The main differences being the harder rollover area and the less risky snackbar shots. This is taking into account that TPA tables tend to be more predictable because of the absence of ball spin and other randomness that we know from real tables.
 
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superballs

Active member
Apr 12, 2012
2,653
2
It's great to be able to see such a precise and detailed breakdown of our TPA tables.

I've loved CFTBL since it's release. Though I've never played a real table...the bounces and ramps seem to make sense to me on TPA.
 

Slam23

Active member
Jul 21, 2012
1,279
2
Thanks! I can for example do TZ and STTNG next, both are in the line-up and in good working order, and I know both tables well from playing them in TPA. Could be some time because I have to wait a month before I can play again at the clubhouse,
Slam23
 

Richard B

New member
Apr 7, 2012
1,868
0
This is pretty awesome. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that, while overall difficulty is generally pretty consistent among machines, there are minute variations in playfield architecture, flipper strength, wear, pitch, friction, and myriad other variables. So, how hard specific targets and ramps are to hit, what happens when you backhand, and even whether a target or ramp can be hit from a certain flipper, all vary depending on the specific machine.

That said, I'd like to see one of these done on an ultra-easy TPA table, like BOP, SS, or TZ.
 
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pezpunk

New member
Jul 29, 2012
427
0
this is a really cool post. but i think there's enough variation between individual real life tables to call most of this well within the margin of error in terms of accuracy.
 

Slam23

Active member
Jul 21, 2012
1,279
2
I agree with the comments about small physics variations between real life tables. It would be fun (and more accurate for the comparison) to be able to play multiple machines. For now I'm happy to get to play real tables at all though... :)
Slam23
 

IronSabbath88

New member
Feb 21, 2013
15
0
It's literally been years since I played the real machine.. and I loved it. I still love the TPA rendition of it and I swear, each passing day the 360 doesn't have an update I'm tempted to just get it for PS3 aswell.
 

Zaphod77

Active member
Feb 14, 2013
1,316
2
Your real CFTBL was very kind with the snackbar, it's dangerous on most of them. you flip even a little bit too soon and it grazes that post and rebounds straight down the middle.

On TPA i can MAX the double feature over and over again. in fact i could probably get a high score doing that and nothing else if i actually bought it. :)
 

DaPinballWizard

New member
Apr 16, 2012
1,016
0
Played a real CFTBL table today. They had a Medieval Madness too but it was being played. Spent some time with POTC T3 and TAF, and unfortunately Transformers. Didn't care for that one. Wish it was T2 instead of T3 too.
 

inspector42

New member
May 27, 2012
344
0
Also played a real one recently. Holy lord the looping ramps get in the way of seeing just about anything on the middle of the playfield. Makes it just about unplayable for me. I prefer the TPA version, where I can see through the ramps.
 

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