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Thread: Flubber and Teflon

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    Senior Member mpclemens's Avatar
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    Angry Flubber and Teflon

    That's got to be what the ball on this table is made from.

    Is BH tuned super fast? I can't believe the ball in a real table is as lively as the one on this machine: it would bash itself to pieces in the first few plays. Shots to the lower level should maybe be something of a challenge, but I find myself hooking them in there off of nearly every flipper without even trying. Catching the ball under the top right flipper is practically a recipe for disaster, as it usually kicks out of there like a rocket, ricocheting back and forth. Every shot has turned into a catch, just trying to slow the ball down long enough to hit a drop target -- any drop target -- without, oh damn, lower level again. [Flails to get the re-entry hole lit.]

    Is it just me? Is the the Android build? Playing this back on PHoF is a completely different experience. I felt like you really had to reach to get all the drop targets, and time those shots to the lower table. In TPA, I feel like I need safety goggles and a chemical stimulant to keep up.

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    Senior Member Eegah's Avatar
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    If you think this is fast you're gonna love Space Shuttle.

    With regards to the lower play field, it'll feel faster if you have the camera zoomed in on it. It'll also screw you over when you get multiball so I recommend pulling the camera back.

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    Senior Member mpclemens's Avatar
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    The funny thing is, I do love Space Shuttle. I just downloaded the freeplay demo version, and although I hit the score limit in a short time, it was controlled. I never felt like the table was playing itself like I do with BH. I always keep the camera locked and in a normal distance from the table. Can't stand the zoomed camera, and I don't play real tables with my nose up against the glass.

    Just to see if I'm being a hopeless whiner, I did fire up PHoF last night (Playstation 2) and yes, BH and Shuttle are fast there. Shuttle is one of my best tables in PHoF in fact. Maybe it's generous with the scoring modes, or that table and I just "click" but I typically earn 4-5 EBs on a typical game, and I'm able to regularly make shots that I know are tricky in real life like the "T" ramp, the airlock gate drops. If I get too full of myself, I just can fire up BH on either platform and enjoy a nice big slice of Loser Pie.

    I probably am just complaining for complaining's sake. With the wide open spaces on BH, there's very little to get in the way of the ball. Sadly for me, this is usually while it comes screaming off a pop towards the left outlane or SDTM. It's brutal.

  4. #4
    Senior Member superballs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpclemens View Post
    That's got to be what the ball on this table is made from.

    Is BH tuned super fast? I can't believe the ball in a real table is as lively as the one on this machine: it would bash itself to pieces in the first few plays. Shots to the lower level should maybe be something of a challenge, but I find myself hooking them in there off of nearly every flipper without even trying. Catching the ball under the top right flipper is practically a recipe for disaster, as it usually kicks out of there like a rocket, ricocheting back and forth. Every shot has turned into a catch, just trying to slow the ball down long enough to hit a drop target -- any drop target -- without, oh damn, lower level again. [Flails to get the re-entry hole lit.]

    Is it just me? Is the the Android build? Playing this back on PHoF is a completely different experience. I felt like you really had to reach to get all the drop targets, and time those shots to the lower table. In TPA, I feel like I need safety goggles and a chemical stimulant to keep up.
    It does play fast and loose. Though I've captured and uploaded the ball under the flipper thing and up like a rocket is a bit of an overstatement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eegah View Post
    If you think this is fast you're gonna love Space Shuttle.

    With regards to the lower play field, it'll feel faster if you have the camera zoomed in on it. It'll also screw you over when you get multiball so I recommend pulling the camera back.
    The only time in multiball that tjw camera is zoomed in is when no balls are in play up top. When you first start multiball on the lower playfield, and drain the first ball it isnt returned to the upper playfield until the second ball is drained
    I used to use Windows Vista, then I took an Aero in the knee

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    I've never played Black Hole in real life, so I can't speak to the accuracy. But it's weird: when I first got TPA, Black Hole was sort of the also-ran of the core pack, but now it's by far my favorite of the four, the only one I come back to over and over. I think much of this is down to the many patches the table has gotten since then.

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    well I've got Black Hole in my basement, and it is indeed a very fast game. the slings and bumpers accelerate the ball quite a lot. in TPA, this table seems to have flipper logic that is less advanced than, say, TZ, though, because that pin more accurately models what happens to a ball that is under a flipper. i'd say the main difference between TPA's BH and mine is the flippers are slightly more powerful, especially on the lower playfield, in TPA. however, it's not that big of a difference. in real life, sending the ball into the gravity well is not a shot that requires a ton of power, and is pretty easy from either right flipper. in fact, it's not unusual for a ball to get extremely accelerated bouncing off slings and bumpers and end up shooting down the gravity well either.
    Last edited by pezpunk; 08-08-2013 at 08:11 AM.

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    also, I loooooooooove this table both in TPA and real life

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    Senior Pigeon Kolchak357's Avatar
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    I actually enjoy the way it plays now. It has been changed many times by FS. It is much better now than it was at the beginning.

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    Senior Member superballs's Avatar
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    I loved BH from the beginning.
    It's only gotten better.

    It's still one of my favs.

    That said. RBION was my also ran, but like you with BH, it's one of my faves now too.
    I used to use Windows Vista, then I took an Aero in the knee

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    I never liked RBION until it was listed in a tournament and I was forced to play it. but yeah, I like it now too.

  11. #11
    Senior Member mpclemens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superballs View Post
    It does play fast and loose. Though I've captured and uploaded the ball under the flipper thing and up like a rocket is a bit of an overstatement.
    I think this happened due to the "pass through the flipper" bug: the ball accelerated through the tip of the flipper, and the physics engine went from there.

    Mind you, I'm not saying I dislike this table -- quite the opposite -- just that I'm consistently terrible at it, and speed may be a factor. Other tables feel downright sluggish after a few rounds on BH.

    And for the record, I really like RBION, because it's goofy. Pins shouldn't take themselves too seriously, nor pinball players.

  12. #12
    Senior Member superballs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpclemens View Post
    I think this happened due to the "pass through the flipper" bug: the ball accelerated through the tip of the flipper, and the physics engine went from there.

    Mind you, I'm not saying I dislike this table -- quite the opposite -- just that I'm consistently terrible at it, and speed may be a factor. Other tables feel downright sluggish after a few rounds on BH.

    And for the record, I really like RBION, because it's goofy. Pins shouldn't take themselves too seriously, nor pinball players.
    I'm (slowly) working on a strategy video for it in my (paltry) spare time. Hopefully I'll get it up. That said...i'm sure if the ball has some good bounce on it it will continue to bounce up when the flipper comes down on it.

    Yes it's fast...it's one of very few tables that really get my heart pumping.
    I used to use Windows Vista, then I took an Aero in the knee

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    Senior Member Eegah's Avatar
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    I'd be interested in seeing it. I'd kindof written off this table a couple weeks after I started playing (around Feb this year) because I thought I'd "solved" it (get the extra ball, head downstairs and rack the bonus up to 100k, repeat), but if you have something better then hey.

    That said this thread made me play a couple balls last night and I fell in love with it again. Oops.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Eegah's Avatar
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    The only time in multiball that tjw camera is zoomed in is when no balls are in play up top. When you first start multiball on the lower playfield, and drain the first ball it isnt returned to the upper playfield until the second ball is drained
    When I was playing a couple months ago I had a problem in that when multiball kicked in the camera would stay locked on the inner playfield no matter how many balls were on the outer playfield, obviously making those balls unplayable.

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    Senior Pigeon Kolchak357's Avatar
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    Black Hole and I have a strange relationship. I don't play it for weeks at a time, then all of a sudden it is the only pin I play for a couple of days. It's like I forget that I like it or something.

  16. #16
    Senior Member superballs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eegah View Post
    I'd be interested in seeing it. I'd kindof written off this table a couple weeks after I started playing (around Feb this year) because I thought I'd "solved" it (get the extra ball, head downstairs and rack the bonus up to 100k, repeat), but if you have something better then hey.

    That said this thread made me play a couple balls last night and I fell in love with it again. Oops.
    It's in there somewhere.

    Video editing is a pain on my laptop and uploading is a nightmare...it might be a bit but hopefully is worth it when it's done.
    I used to use Windows Vista, then I took an Aero in the knee

    XBL -> SilverballNut

    Check out my latest PinVlog - Big Shot Commentary and Strategy

    Older videos can be found here:
    High Speed Impression and Commentary

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