The PS3 "super patch"

ER777

ER777

New member
Sep 8, 2012
797
0
Primero said:
Damn it, I was just about to log out, but then I saw your post ER777! Why won't you guys let me go! Hahahaha...

Anyway, real quick, what you failed to see here ER777 is that I made my points based on the actual truth. It's a fact that trophies can only be earned once (per profile), whereas a person can have infinite attempts at surpassing a previous high score. These are unshakable facts. Whether or not someone is interested in any of those things is irrelevant. Completely irrelevant. It's a fact that chasing a new high score provides a true source of what we call "replay value", whereas seeking out trophies DOES NOT. The key word here is REPLAY. I'd like to see you re-lock your trophies and then unlock them again...

THERE IS NO "REPLAY VALUE" FROM TROPHIES. 100% FACT.

And now, I'm going to cry to the mods that you were so so mean to me when you said I have a "hard time understanding perspective" because it really burned me to the core and I'll never be the same again. PiN WiZ! Oh PiN WiZ! Can you please protect me from this digital evil-doer? I'm such a sissy and I can't handle his strong opinion! Oh! I'm dying over here! Help me! (Make sure you do the same thing, ER777! Report me to the mods since I just made you cry... right? I made you cry, right? I mean that's what happens when people have a debate on the internet... mmhmm...)
Click to expand...

Oh boy, you really went off the rails there lol.

I'll say it again. If an aspect of a game causes someone to play the game more times than they would have without that aspect being there, then it has added replay value for them. Its that simple.
 
P

Primero

New member
Sep 12, 2013
34
0
ER777 said:
Oh boy, you really went off the rails there lol.

I'll say it again. If an aspect of a game causes someone to play the game more times than they would have without that aspect being there, then it has added replay value for them. Its that simple.
Click to expand...

OK, I'm gonna try this one more time. After this topic dies, I'm going to stay away for good. If my point doesn't get through after this, I won't know what else to do.

It's this simple... We are not comparing opinions here. It's your opinion vs. facts. Why you would try to deny something factual is bewildering and disheartening to me.

As I said in that PM I sent you, you've got the wrong argument going on here entirely, because you didn't pick up on the distinction between "replay value", and the idea that you're talking about without realizing it - INCENTIVE. Trophies add incentive for people to play a game further than they would have played. They EXTEND gameplay time as you attempt to seek out every nook and cranny of a game that you might not have otherwise. You could call it "extended play value", or "incentive to play more", but trophies certainly do NOT contribute to "replay value".

It's a bonafide 100% fact that trophies DO NOT add to "replay value". You need to understand the term "replay value" first. It refers to the ever-increasing bang for your buck you get from a game that continually serves you a legitimate feeling of enjoyment and satisfaction, and this is highlighted by a persistent urge... a reason to go back and keep playing the game. The "one-and-done" nature of trophies does not lend itself to the phenomenon known as "replay value". It's literally impossible. The very nature of trophies clashes with the term "replay value". Trophies would be accurately referred to as "1-play value", instead. When you earn a trophy, it's done. It's behind you. It's in the past. This is undebatable. It blows my mind that you're not comprehending this simple concept. This is NOT MY OPINION, this is A FACT.

After you earn the trophy, then what? Where does the replay value come from? It comes from the truly legitimate sources of replay value. Whether or not you partake in these extra features is irrelevant. Examples of legitimate replay value would be the potentially never-ending one-upping of scores between you and a friend, which social integration has brought to the industry. Or, just trying to top your own score. Or, just for good ol' fashioned fun. THESE THINGS CAN POTENTIALLY GO ON FOREVER, hence the appropriateness of the term "replay value" applied to them. Because you're getting incredible value in terms of how much you paid for the game vs. how much playtime you're getting out of it.

Most people who "hunt for trophies" (heh... gotta be careful with certain terms apparently) will even admit that once they've acquired a platinum trophy for a particular game they'll never play it again. The trophies merely gave them the INCENTIVE to see the game through to it's end, and DUE TO THE FACT THAT TROPHIES ARE PERMANENTLY UNOBTAINABLE AFTER UNLOCKING THEM ONCE, there is nothing about trophies that urges a player to return to the game, unless it's for a reason OTHER THAN TROPHIES, because THERE COULDN'T BE a way for already-acquired trophies to encourage someone to return. It's impossible.

I've even read game reviews that have specifically made reference to games NOT having any replay value (usually linear single-player games with no multi-player) due to the fact that "once you complete the trophy set, there's nothing left to do." Thus, NO REPLAY VALUE.

No opinions here, only facts which you are curiously rejecting.

I'm not even saying there's anything wrong with trophies, nor the incentive they give gamers to complete a game. I'm just trying to get through to you guys the difference between replay value and incentive. Heck, I try to get trophies myself, if I can. In fact, I was the second person who fully completed the PS3 version of the Pinball Arcade trophy set. Only Sir_Moovenstein did it faster (you can see the proof on PSNprofiles.com). So, I'm speaking from experience. Obviously, I can't go back and get those trophies again (unless it's on another platform, which I'm actually doing now on my new Vita!)... so, when I REPLAY the game (on the PS3), it's clearly for something OTHER THAN TROPHIES, such as beating my own high score, beating a friend who recently passed me, or just for the satisfaction of smacking that ball around and hitting those shots.

Nobody needed to get all hot and bothered about me laying the facts out on the table. There shouldn't be anything scary about the truth.

It's a fact that trophies do not contribute to replay value. It's a fact that they are a one-and-done type of feature. I didn't make it up. I didn't invent trophies, and I didn't invent the truth. I'm just pointing it out. All I was saying is that those who hunt for trophies were erroneously using the term "replay value" as their main excuse for justifying their attachment to trophies. I just wanted to correct the mistake. You are referring to INCENTIVE, not REPLAY VALUE.

And for the record, "trophy hunter" is not only not an insult, but it does not carry any negative connotation with it whatsoever. It's not a slur. People who play games for trophies regularly REFER TO THEMSELVES as "trophy hunters".

So, that should settle that, I hope.
 
brakel

brakel

New member
Apr 27, 2012
2,305
1
Primero said:
OK, I'm gonna try this one more time. After this topic dies, I'm going to stay away for good. If my point doesn't get through after this, I won't know what else to do.

It's this simple... We are not comparing opinions here. It's your opinion vs. facts. Why you would try to deny something factual is bewildering and disheartening to me.

As I said in that PM I sent you, you've got the wrong argument going on here entirely, because you didn't pick up on the distinction between "replay value", and the idea that you're talking about without realizing it - INCENTIVE. Trophies add incentive for people to play a game further than they would have played. They EXTEND gameplay time as you attempt to seek out every nook and cranny of a game that you might not have otherwise. You could call it "extended play value", or "incentive to play more", but trophies certainly do NOT contribute to "replay value".

It's a bonafide 100% fact that trophies DO NOT add to "replay value". You need to understand the term "replay value" first. It refers to the ever-increasing bang for your buck you get from a game that continually serves you a legitimate feeling of enjoyment and satisfaction, and this is highlighted by a persistent urge... a reason to go back and keep playing the game. The "one-and-done" nature of trophies does not lend itself to the phenomenon known as "replay value". It's literally impossible. The very nature of trophies clashes with the term "replay value". Trophies would be accurately referred to as "1-play value", instead. When you earn a trophy, it's done. It's behind you. It's in the past. This is undebatable. It blows my mind that you're not comprehending this simple concept. This is NOT MY OPINION, this is A FACT.

After you earn the trophy, then what? Where does the replay value come from? It comes from the truly legitimate sources of replay value. Whether or not you partake in these extra features is irrelevant. Examples of legitimate replay value would be the potentially never-ending one-upping of scores between you and a friend, which social integration has brought to the industry. Or, just trying to top your own score. Or, just for good ol' fashioned fun. THESE THINGS CAN POTENTIALLY GO ON FOREVER, hence the appropriateness of the term "replay value" applied to them. Because you're getting incredible value in terms of how much you paid for the game vs. how much playtime you're getting out of it.

Most people who "hunt for trophies" (heh... gotta be careful with certain terms apparently) will even admit that once they've acquired a platinum trophy for a particular game they'll never play it again. The trophies merely gave them the INCENTIVE to see the game through to it's end, and DUE TO THE FACT THAT TROPHIES ARE PERMANENTLY UNOBTAINABLE AFTER UNLOCKING THEM ONCE, there is nothing about trophies that urges a player to return to the game, unless it's for a reason OTHER THAN TROPHIES, because THERE COULDN'T BE a way for already-acquired trophies to encourage someone to return. It's impossible.

I've even read game reviews that have specifically made reference to games NOT having any replay value (usually linear single-player games with no multi-player) due to the fact that "once you complete the trophy set, there's nothing left to do." Thus, NO REPLAY VALUE.

No opinions here, only facts which you are curiously rejecting.

I'm not even saying there's anything wrong with trophies, nor the incentive they give gamers to complete a game. I'm just trying to get through to you guys the difference between replay value and incentive. Heck, I try to get trophies myself, if I can. In fact, I was the second person who fully completed the PS3 version of the Pinball Arcade trophy set. Only Sir_Moovenstein did it faster (you can see the proof on PSNprofiles.com). So, I'm speaking from experience. Obviously, I can't go back and get those trophies again (unless it's on another platform, which I'm actually doing now on my new Vita!)... so, when I REPLAY the game (on the PS3), it's clearly for something OTHER THAN TROPHIES, such as beating my own high score, beating a friend who recently passed me, or just for the satisfaction of smacking that ball around and hitting those shots.

Nobody needed to get all hot and bothered about me laying the facts out on the table. There shouldn't be anything scary about the truth.

It's a fact that trophies do not contribute to replay value. It's a fact that they are a one-and-done type of feature. I didn't make it up. I didn't invent trophies, and I didn't invent the truth. I'm just pointing it out. All I was saying is that those who hunt for trophies were erroneously using the term "replay value" as their main excuse for justifying their attachment to trophies. I just wanted to correct the mistake. You are referring to INCENTIVE, not REPLAY VALUE.

And for the record, "trophy hunter" is not only not an insult, but it does not carry any negative connotation with it whatsoever. It's not a slur. People who play games for trophies regularly REFER TO THEMSELVES as "trophy hunters".

So, that should settle that, I hope.
Click to expand...

In your humble opinion of course! :D

So, someone plays a table a few times. They like it OK but it's not for them but they haven't gotten all of the trophies...so they REPLAY the table until they do. This adds a lot of enjoyment to this person and now they feel like they've gotten a good VALUE.

I don't care about trophies in video games and they don't add any replay value to me. If I haven't gotten the trophy on a table that I don't like so much then I won't be playing it but I am open minded enough to see that it can add replay value for other people. Replay value doesn't mean that you will play it forever. It means that you will play it more than once.
 
ER777

ER777

New member
Sep 8, 2012
797
0
Primero, the term replay value refers to something that leads you to play the game additional times. It doesn't refer to making the trophy pop up multiple times or having to repeat any other specific action. It seems like you're hung up on that and creating distinctions between the different motivations people have for wanting to play the game additional times, so I'll leave you to your feelings about it.

The rest of us will just have to accept that as we play the game multiple times while working towards our goals those goals are not actually providing us with any replay value.
 
spoonman

spoonman

New member
Apr 20, 2012
1,435
3
Primero said:
OK, I'm gonna try this one more time. After this topic dies, I'm going to stay away for good. If my point doesn't get through after this, I won't know what else to do.

It's this simple... We are not comparing opinions here. It's your opinion vs. facts. Why you would try to deny something factual is bewildering and disheartening to me.

As I said in that PM I sent you, you've got the wrong argument going on here entirely, because you didn't pick up on the distinction between "replay value", and the idea that you're talking about without realizing it - INCENTIVE. Trophies add incentive for people to play a game further than they would have played. They EXTEND gameplay time as you attempt to seek out every nook and cranny of a game that you might not have otherwise. You could call it "extended play value", or "incentive to play more", but trophies certainly do NOT contribute to "replay value".

It's a bonafide 100% fact that trophies DO NOT add to "replay value". You need to understand the term "replay value" first. It refers to the ever-increasing bang for your buck you get from a game that continually serves you a legitimate feeling of enjoyment and satisfaction, and this is highlighted by a persistent urge... a reason to go back and keep playing the game. The "one-and-done" nature of trophies does not lend itself to the phenomenon known as "replay value". It's literally impossible. The very nature of trophies clashes with the term "replay value". Trophies would be accurately referred to as "1-play value", instead. When you earn a trophy, it's done. It's behind you. It's in the past. This is undebatable. It blows my mind that you're not comprehending this simple concept. This is NOT MY OPINION, this is A FACT.

After you earn the trophy, then what? Where does the replay value come from? It comes from the truly legitimate sources of replay value. Whether or not you partake in these extra features is irrelevant. Examples of legitimate replay value would be the potentially never-ending one-upping of scores between you and a friend, which social integration has brought to the industry. Or, just trying to top your own score. Or, just for good ol' fashioned fun. THESE THINGS CAN POTENTIALLY GO ON FOREVER, hence the appropriateness of the term "replay value" applied to them. Because you're getting incredible value in terms of how much you paid for the game vs. how much playtime you're getting out of it.

Most people who "hunt for trophies" (heh... gotta be careful with certain terms apparently) will even admit that once they've acquired a platinum trophy for a particular game they'll never play it again. The trophies merely gave them the INCENTIVE to see the game through to it's end, and DUE TO THE FACT THAT TROPHIES ARE PERMANENTLY UNOBTAINABLE AFTER UNLOCKING THEM ONCE, there is nothing about trophies that urges a player to return to the game, unless it's for a reason OTHER THAN TROPHIES, because THERE COULDN'T BE a way for already-acquired trophies to encourage someone to return. It's impossible.

I've even read game reviews that have specifically made reference to games NOT having any replay value (usually linear single-player games with no multi-player) due to the fact that "once you complete the trophy set, there's nothing left to do." Thus, NO REPLAY VALUE.

No opinions here, only facts which you are curiously rejecting.

I'm not even saying there's anything wrong with trophies, nor the incentive they give gamers to complete a game. I'm just trying to get through to you guys the difference between replay value and incentive. Heck, I try to get trophies myself, if I can. In fact, I was the second person who fully completed the PS3 version of the Pinball Arcade trophy set. Only Sir_Moovenstein did it faster (you can see the proof on PSNprofiles.com). So, I'm speaking from experience. Obviously, I can't go back and get those trophies again (unless it's on another platform, which I'm actually doing now on my new Vita!)... so, when I REPLAY the game (on the PS3), it's clearly for something OTHER THAN TROPHIES, such as beating my own high score, beating a friend who recently passed me, or just for the satisfaction of smacking that ball around and hitting those shots.

Nobody needed to get all hot and bothered about me laying the facts out on the table. There shouldn't be anything scary about the truth.

It's a fact that trophies do not contribute to replay value. It's a fact that they are a one-and-done type of feature. I didn't make it up. I didn't invent trophies, and I didn't invent the truth. I'm just pointing it out. All I was saying is that those who hunt for trophies were erroneously using the term "replay value" as their main excuse for justifying their attachment to trophies. I just wanted to correct the mistake. You are referring to INCENTIVE, not REPLAY VALUE.

And for the record, "trophy hunter" is not only not an insult, but it does not carry any negative connotation with it whatsoever. It's not a slur. People who play games for trophies regularly REFER TO THEMSELVES as "trophy hunters".

So, that should settle that, I hope.
Click to expand...

Ok my last reply on this and I'll keep it short as this getting off topic...

1. I didn't "cry to a mod" if you were referring to me when you said that. I didn't even know what was deleted from here. No biggie..

2. I lost track of why some people are so against trophies. It shouldn't affect your game either way.
As I mentioned, for trophy haters Sony included an option to turn off trophy notifications, so you will soon forget they even exist.

3. They certainty add replayability for me. After I beat a game with limited play such as Uncharted, inFAMOUS, GOW, I will start up another game and complete the other things in order to get the trophy. I normally wouldn't play through a game like that again..

So there you go, replayability in every sense of the word. In addition, if you grab 100% of the trophies and want to do it all over again just simply great another user on the PS3 and give it another go. So there you go, unlimited replayability! :)

4. Anyway, there is no reason not to keep it friendly on here. It's good to be passionate about gaming, but we all have pinball in common. Keep cool and game on! :)

ER777 said:
Absolutely correct! It was about the patch before we hijacked it. Splitting hairs here feels somehow apropos.
Click to expand...

My original question was asking if Farsight might possibly be adding trophies for the missing tables in the Mega Patch... then stuff splooded...
 
Last edited:
Gorgar

Gorgar

Active member
Mar 31, 2012
1,332
8
Back on topic, Farsight's Facebook page says that they plan to submit the mega patch with Fish Tales and Black Rose. The initial download will not be as large as we originally expected (I think they said around 500 mb), but whenever we try to play a table for the first time after downloading the mega patch, we will be prompted to download the updated version.
 
SKILL_SHOT

SKILL_SHOT

Banned
Jul 11, 2012
3,659
1
looks like after 19&20 there needs some more patching.
I recently played or replayed BORDERLANDS after a year of not playing.....to get a trophy and now that I got it Im done with it. FACT! :p
 
starck

starck

New member
Jun 7, 2012
194
0
Gorgar said:
Back on topic, Farsight's Facebook page says that they plan to submit the mega patch with Fish Tales and Black Rose. The initial download will not be as large as we originally expected (I think they said around 500 mb), but whenever we try to play a table for the first time after downloading the mega patch, we will be prompted to download the updated version.
Click to expand...
Where'd you find that? (Can't seem to find it- Good find!)
 

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