Big Bear City Council considers lifting pinball ban

westofrome · Jan 28, 2014

Check out this story. Sounds like the potential Farsight pinball arcade could be street legal soon.
http://www.bigbeargrizzly.net/news/article_046887ea-8552-11e3-9ebf-0019bb2963f4.html

Heretic · Jan 28, 2014

lmao ironic that the home of tpa has a table ban, funny stuff

Carl Spiby · Jan 28, 2014

The section was drafted in response to a “1955 grand jury finding that pinball machines constitute a public nuisance, and that the machines foster delinquency, promote gambling and encourage its operators to commit unlawful acts for the purposes of obtaining money with which to play the machines.”

Ridiculous.

Espy · Jan 28, 2014

Sounds like one of those laws that was put in place decades ago and forgotten about. Just now they're discovering it and overturning it.

brakel · Jan 28, 2014

Heretic said:
lmao ironic that the home of tpa has a table ban, funny stuff

Not as ironic than while Chicago was churning out the vast majority of pinball machines for the world, they were banned from being played in Chicago from the 1930s until the early 1970s.

Pinball had to break its association with gambling completely before they were accepted by city governments across the US. That's the reason why you see the "for amusement only - no gambling" tags on machines. It was also very regulated. It was required by many municipalities to display the cost of a game, number of balls, replay score, etc. Pinball manufacturers settled on some standard label requirements that would be acceptable across most of the states that didn't have an outright ban. There's a reason why those instructions were on pinball machines and not arcade video game machines. The pinball manufacturers were not being "nice" by having those labels!

danivempire · Jan 28, 2014

... okay... let me put this togheter in my head...

there was a pinball ban in the US in 2013???

that's f**king crazy!!!

okay, I know that in china they just lifted the ban for home console, but okay... china... and that it was banned in the US a long time ago...

but a pinball ban in 2013 in US... crazy....

brakel · Jan 28, 2014

danivempire said:
... okay... let me put this togheter in my head...

there was a pinball ban in the US in 2013???

that's f**king crazy!!!

okay, I know that in china they just lifted the ban for home console, but okay... china... and that it was banned in the US a long time ago...

but a pinball ban in 2013 in US... crazy....

They created the legislation more than 50 years ago when many municipalities in the US considered pinball machines as gambling machines. It has stayed on the books because no one has objected or questioned it. Probably most people there didn't even know it was against local ordinances. Just like the city itself didn't know they had an ordinance against the endurance races that they themselves were sponsoring. The ordinance probably would have been repealed in the 70's or after if an arcade wanted to operate in the city. It sounds like they're in the process of cleaning up many outdated ordinances. Illegal to impersonate the opposite sex? That one isn't going to fly in California today!

Naildriver74 · Jan 28, 2014

They've been making these laws for a long time and still do today. The people we elect think we can't make desicions for ourselves and need someone to look after us. Grab Your Pitchforks And Come With Me!!!!

Pinballwiz45b · Jan 28, 2014

This ban was created in the 1940s due to gambling games, when the flipper was not around. Big Bear may not have noticed the ban from the 1950s until now. Great to hear that they're lifting it.

brakel · Jan 28, 2014

Pinballwiz45b said:
This ban was created in the 1940s due to gambling games, when the flipper was not around. Big Bear may not have noticed the ban from the 1950s until now. Great to hear that they're lifting it.

It didn't really have anything to do with flippers or the lack of them. Most of the pinball machine bans weren't lifted until after the landmark testimony before a New York City committee in 1976 showing that pinball was skill based. 1976 was well after the addition of flippers to machines.

JPelter · Jan 28, 2014

brakel said:
It didn't really have anything to do with flippers or the lack of them. Most of the pinball machine bans weren't lifted until after the landmark testimony before a New York City committee in 1976 showing that pinball was skill based. 1976 was well after the addition of flippers to machines.

I think the point is that before the introduction of flippers pinball machines actually were to a large part gambling machines. You had very little influence on the ball if any, and a lot of places actually gave out prizes for getting replays.

shutyertrap · Jan 28, 2014

You notice that it wasn't Jay that brought the lifting of the pinball ban forward. There are all sorts of sticking points for him when it comes to being mayor AND business owner, and he has to tread those very carefully. This is good news though, as FS may yet still have plans on opening an arcade, despite what they constantly tell me!

Heretic · Jan 28, 2014

would a pure acrade in a small town but worth while, time for that barcade methinks

Bowflex · Jan 28, 2014

You know there are a few old codgers bristling at the very laws they sponsored being overturned. They probably celebrated the demise of gottlieb and WMS' pinball division and are thinking that the moral fabric of society is now in jeopardy with the overturning of laws that were stupid to begin with!

neglectoid · Jan 28, 2014

I always wondered if LaGuardia airport has pins in the airport.

Buzz1126 · Jan 28, 2014

Yep, there were days when the "snack bars" and the "restaurants" had a back room where the early tables had no flippers and did, in fact, offer money for certain combinations of balls in the holes. The games were "provided" by less-than-reputable gentlemen and they took a cut of the proceeds. Don't know if it's true or an urban legend, but some guy supposedly "called a shot" on a table with flippers, made it, and the judge moved that pinball was legal in New York. Kudos to Big Bear City Council. Welcome to the twenty-first century.

Jeff Strong · Jan 28, 2014

Buzz1126 said:
Yep, there were days when the "snack bars" and the "restaurants" had a back room where the early tables had no flippers and did, in fact, offer money for certain combinations of balls in the holes. The games were "provided" by less-than-reputable gentlemen and they took a cut of the proceeds. Don't know if it's true or an urban legend, but some guy supposedly "called a shot" on a table with flippers, made it, and the judge moved that pinball was legal in New York. Kudos to Big Bear City Council. Welcome to the twenty-first century.

Yes, it's true. It was actually Roger Sharpe who actually works with Farsight (obtaining licenses):

"In 1976, Roger Sharpe stood before the New York City Council, with all the pressure in the world on his shoulders. He explained that if he pulled the plunger back just the right amount, the ball would go in a certain lane. He pulled back the plunger, and the ball went right into the lane he had pointed out previously. The head of the council announced that he had seen enough, and pinball was soon legal. The decision spread through out the country, and pinball was soon legal everywhere."

http://pinball.wikia.com/wiki/Roger_Sharpe

Fungi · Jan 29, 2014

Jeff Strong said:
Yes, it's true. It was actually Roger Sharpe who actually works with Farsight (obtaining licenses):

"In 1976, Roger Sharpe stood before the New York City Council, with all the pressure in the world on his shoulders. He explained that if he pulled the plunger back just the right amount, the ball would go in a certain lane. He pulled back the plunger, and the ball went right into the lane he had pointed out previously. The head of the council announced that he had seen enough, and pinball was soon legal. The decision spread through out the country, and pinball was soon legal everywhere."

http://pinball.wikia.com/wiki/Roger_Sharpe

Isn't it amazing that it took THAT to prove it was a game of skill. For gawds sake, just LOOK at the machines. If there's any timing involved, or in Roger Sharpe's case, plunger placement, then yes, it's a game of skill.

Eegah · Jan 29, 2014

Heretic said:
would a pure acrade in a small town but worth while, time for that barcade methinks

One of the larger pure-pinball rooms around is Lyons Classic Pinball in Lyons, Colorado, population 2,033. Went there last summer for my first real-table games in over a decade and it was great. They were doing good business that day, but there was also a huge bluegrass festival or something in town and the place was packed.

Three weeks later Lyons was on the news as the epicenter of the great flood last year, but the pinball place escaped unharmed. PAPA's doing a webcast there for a tourney in a couple months.

smbhax · Jan 29, 2014

shutyertrap said:
You notice that it wasn't Jay that brought the lifting of the pinball ban forward. There are all sorts of sticking points for him when it comes to being mayor AND business owner, and he has to tread those very carefully. This is good news though, as FS may yet still have plans on opening an arcade, despite what they constantly tell me!

Hah, I had no idea he's town mayor! I guess someone could try to make it out as a conflict of interest, but it's extremely silly in any sense. I just think it's cool he's also mayor. : D

Big Bear City Council considers lifting pinball ban

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