Gorgar emulated?

Fuseball

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May 26, 2012
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I noticed that the drop targets pop back up instantaneously when you complete them... Which makes me think that the Gorgar roms are not being used. There would always be a gap between the last drop target dropping down, the game recognising this and firing the solenoid to pop them back up again.

I know there have traditionally been problems emulating Gottlieb's System 80 hardware, but I thought that the early SS Williams and Bally games have had working emulation for some time.

The background heartbeat is also running constantly, whereas I think the game's sound board is monophonic (one sound at a time) and any sound effect (bumper hit, spinner etc.) will override and kill the background sound until it is finished or another sound effect is triggered and takes precedence. You only really get the background sound if nothing else is going on.

I'd love to get some confirmation on whether it is emulated or not... and please use emulation for Black Knight, when you make it. There's a lot of stuff that was missing from PHOF.
 

Kevlar

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Feb 20, 2012
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I've noticed the drop targets behaving like that, the last one to be hit doesn't seem to drop at all.
 

DopedToInfinity

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Mar 31, 2012
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On the Android VER 1.0.8 bugs thread Ryan Routon, while replying to a bug says:

"As far as gorgar, one thing to note is that this table is not emulated, it could very well be a bug in the scripting."

I'm wondering if Funhouse is scripted instead of emulated, as the original ROM doesn't cause overlapping music, which TPA version suffers from.
 

Richard B

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Apr 7, 2012
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Didn't they learn their lesson with Black Hole? I suppose Bride of Pinbot is screwed up too? Seems like non-DMD games suffer from this. Well, if that's the case, they should just not make any more non-DMDs. IF YOU CAN'T RECREATE A TABLE PERFECTLY, DON'T RECREATE IT AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

an ox

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May 28, 2012
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yeah I was thinking exactly the same thing about the audio: it sounds like complete samples are triggered for every sound effect and played entirely, whereas on the real hardware I guess they are truncated and re-triggered or changed according to priority. Having too many samples playing in full makes the audio sound a bit messy and muddy at times.

hopefully they'll tidy them up or Eugene Jarvis will be cross!
 

Dutch Pinball ball

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May 5, 2012
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Richard, calm down man. There will never be made a single table which is recreated perfect. None.....

Its emulation, it will never be the real deal. Just calm down and wait for bug fixes. Some people need a reality check.
 

Rudy Yagov

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Mar 30, 2012
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On the Android VER 1.0.8 bugs thread Ryan Routon, while replying to a bug says:

"As far as gorgar, one thing to note is that this table is not emulated, it could very well be a bug in the scripting."

I'm wondering if Funhouse is scripted instead of emulated, as the original ROM doesn't cause overlapping music, which TPA version suffers from.

They've said themselves that Funhouse is emulated. It's possible that there's a bug in the emulation, though.


Didn't they learn their lesson with Black Hole? I suppose Bride of Pinbot is screwed up too? Seems like non-DMD games suffer from this. Well, if that's the case, they should just not make any more non-DMDs. IF YOU CAN'T RECREATE A TABLE PERFECTLY, DON'T RECREATE IT AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't ignore the flipper gap in MM. That's a physical error that should have been caught immediately.

And I'm 100% sure that Bride is emulated due to several hidden features in the ROM that work in TPA, as I pointed out in this thread. I doubt they would go so far as to script something like that.
 
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Jeff Strong

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Feb 19, 2012
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Didn't they learn their lesson with Black Hole? I suppose Bride of Pinbot is screwed up too? Seems like non-DMD games suffer from this. Well, if that's the case, they should just not make any more non-DMDs. IF YOU CAN'T RECREATE A TABLE PERFECTLY, DON'T RECREATE IT AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's not resort to rageful outbursts.....we'll leave that sort of thing on FB. :)

Black Hole isn't a perfect simulation, but it's still very fun and playable. Farsight is doing the best they can, and things will get better with time, so let's try to remain calm and patient.
 

Fuseball

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May 26, 2012
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Well, I'm loving what they are doing with recreating the playfields. BH and Gorgar are very enjoyable and playable, although I know how much better and more authentic they would feel with the game logic emulated rather than simulated.

I'm pretty certain that PinMAME had full emulation of System 6 (Gorgar, Firepower) so technically it should be possible.

It's not going to stop me playing any of these in TPA, although the mistakes in BH scripting make me doubt their accuracy sometimes. Why reinvent the wheel when emulation would give you the rules 100% accurately?
 

Richard B

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Apr 7, 2012
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Richard, calm down man. There will never be made a single table which is recreated perfect. None.....

Its emulation, it will never be the real deal. Just calm down and wait for bug fixes. Some people need a reality check.

I'm referring to software emulation. If properly done, it can be perfect, or close to it. The mechanical stuff, of course, will never be perfectly emulated, though TPA comes closest so far.
 

Richard B

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Apr 7, 2012
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Let's not resort to rageful outbursts.....we'll leave that sort of thing on FB. :)

Black Hole isn't a perfect simulation, but it's still very fun and playable. Farsight is doing the best they can, and things will get better with time, so let's try to remain calm and patient.

It's not a rageful outburst. I'm yelling at FS the same way I yell at my dog when she craps on the floor - do it enough, and maybe they'll stop doing it.
 

Dutch Pinball ball

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May 5, 2012
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Aha, read and learn, never yell at your dog, wont ever work. 2nd lesson, never compare yelling at dogs with ignoring forum etiquettes. It does not make any sense.
 

HOW

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Feb 21, 2012
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Well, I'm loving what they are doing with recreating the playfields. BH and Gorgar are very enjoyable and playable, although I know how much better and more authentic they would feel with the game logic emulated rather than simulated.

I'm pretty certain that PinMAME had full emulation of System 6 (Gorgar, Firepower) so technically it should be possible.

It's not going to stop me playing any of these in TPA, although the mistakes in BH scripting make me doubt their accuracy sometimes. Why reinvent the wheel when emulation would give you the rules 100% accurately?


Here, here - 100% agreed.
VP does emulate the ROMs and has done for a decade.
FS has PinMame's creator Steve as their Emulation Whiz too.
Not sure what the issue may be. It'd be interesting to learn....

Maybe a question for Round 3 for Boo...Bobby?
Sure would be more interesting than 'When we getting 'INSERT TAF, AC/DC, ET AL-HERE'.
 

DopedToInfinity

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Mar 31, 2012
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I can't remember where I read it, I'm sure it was on this forum, but I was under the impression that all WPHOF re-releases would be built from the ground-up.

I'm guessing this is not the case with Gorgar :(

Didn't Farsight make a big deal about their emulation technology on their introduction movie?
 

Zaphod77

Active member
Feb 14, 2013
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I think they just figured that these really old tables are simple enough that they can get away with scripting. It's definitely harder than the phof original, which had a super friendly saucer kickout. this one is much more dangerous. you CAN trap it sometimes, and sometimes dead pass it.

I approve of the new physics for it. it shouldn't be so easy to max bonus every ball.

now just fix the pivot point...
 

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