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Thread: Williams Volume 4 *OFFICIAL* Game play thread

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    Moderator Xanija's Avatar
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    Williams Volume 4 *OFFICIAL* Game play thread

    Let us know what you think about the latest addition to Zen Williams Pinball containing White Water, Red & Ted's Roadshow and Hurricane.

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    Member dmil666's Avatar
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    I bought the pack this morning and have only had time to play each table a couple of times. The tables are absolutely gorgeous, a real treat for the eyes. The table lights are a big improvement from the TPA tables, nice and contrasty.
    The play? Lively, really, really lively. I've been playing the TPA tables a lot leading up to this release, and I find that the shots I used on those tables pretty much don't work on the Zen tables. Dang. But that's ok, I'll just have to work on these. Skill shots are much harder on Roadshow, wish I could draw and launch the ball with my mouse, as my joystick-fu stinks.

    But I like the pack, like what Zen did with the tables. Hell, I even like the blue sidebars on Roadshow (who looks at the sidebars when you're playing?).
    Who says you can't take it with you?

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    Senior Member Lroy's Avatar
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    Williams Volume 4 *OFFICIAL* Game play thread

    Loving the new refined flipper physics and am enjoying all three tables. All new tables to me, no idea what I am doing but that’s half the fun, learning as you go. Plus, the launch day leaderboards are always sparse enough to rank high for at least a few hours, lol!


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    Senior Member warh0g's Avatar
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    Copy paste from the guessing thread :P

    These flipper physics are just so good!
    Can't wait for this to be added to the old packs, oh lawd!

    it is so much more "alive" now than before
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    Member Klopek's Avatar
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    Really impressed by this pack, particularly Hurricane and Road Show. Lots of fun.

    Here are some somewhat random very early impressions and a couple critiques:

    Road Show
    • I don't know what it sounds like in real life but the shaker motor sound is absolutely awesome;
    • The skill shot is brutal;
    • The heads look great. Makes me excited for Funhouse;
    • Considering my only experience of this table was in TPA, the sound here is a revelation;
    • I'm surprised they didn't colour the radio in.


    Hurricane
    • I'm surprised the camera doesn't pan up when spinning the wheel, to show the spinning back glass piece;
    • The animated clown's pie, when you drain, always misses the camera. The pre-release videos make it seem like it should make contact?
    • Pulling the plunger all the way back as quickly as possible seems to be resulting in the associated sound duplicating;
    • I've had the music fail to return after riding the Ferris wheel (after it is returned to the left flipper lane). Repeating the shot fixed it;
    • The duck and carousel enhancements in particular are really well done. Nicely restrained.


    White Water
    • There's something wrong with the White Water music. It's awful to the point where I haven't played the table much because of it;
    • Disappointed there doesn't seem to be any animated water;
    • Much prefer the original big chunky, Nordman looking Big Foot. Would have preferred a more animated version in the original form factor - although I've not spent enough time to see all the animations for skinny big foot;
    • The camera zoom into the top right playfield is not great. Perhaps it's because I use a 16:9 vertical orientation but the right side of the screen is ever so slightly cut off. It's a bit too zoomed;
    • I've already had the ball fail to make it through the left waterfall ramp, stopping and falling off midway through. I've also seen it get stuck at the bottom of the same ramp, in the loop by the left flipper. This might be true to the real table, I have no idea. Both instances corrected themselves, although the latter used magic physics.


    General
    • I'm not a fan of the camera zooming in on animated characters when a ball drains. If they had various animations, or it was infrequent then it would be much more tolerable;
    • Has the table zoom changed when you hold the view button? I thought previously that it zoomed into the table a little more for a closer look. I tried it on the vol 4 pack and it really didn't change the perspective much at all. (Vertical orientation, using view1)


    I'm sure I've forgot a whole lot and this probably seems negative, as it's always easy to dissect compared to putting it all together. I repeat again, I really like these - and all - the Bally/Williams tables!

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    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    I've never been a Road Show or White Water fan and always found Hurricane to be a pretty middling table. Hated Road Show and White Water in TPA.

    Zen has made them tolerable for me. I'm enjoying all 3 much more than the TPA versions. That's honestly about as much as I personally could have hoped for from this pack, so kudos to Zen.

    The tables look great, great lighting, great mechanical sounds, good sounds in general aside from the messed up WW music.

    The new flipper physics are the best I've played in digital pinball and just seeing the fippers move more realistically gives the tables such a better feel, so much more character.

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    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klopek View Post
    I'm surprised the camera doesn't pan up when spinning the wheel, to show the spinning back glass piece;
    You can actually look at it manually. Not sure on the PC version, but on the the PS4 version you just press and hold 'up' on the right analog stick.

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    Are you kidding?? Tell me there's a menu option for the original dialogue.

    Will the PMRC allow Rudy to gag on the ball or not??

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    You can actually look at it manually. Not sure on the PC version, but on the the PS4 version you just press and hold 'up' on the right analog stick.
    It's the same on PC.
    I'm just sayin'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klopek View Post
    [*]I've already had the ball fail to make it through the left waterfall ramp, stopping and falling off midway through.
    This is true to the real table. There's a dip in the ramp, and if the ball doesn't have enough momentum to make it up the incline from there, there's an exit for the ball to fall out to the side. I think the ramp shot still counts, the switch is before/above that area.


    Quote Originally Posted by Klopek View Post
    I've also seen it get stuck at the bottom of the same ramp, in the loop by the left flipper. This might be true to the real table, I have no idea. Both instances corrected themselves, although the latter used magic physics.
    The bottom of that loop is tilted northwards, so the ball will fall towards the exit hole if it doesn't make it around the loop. It's not magic, just the ball falling in a direction you don't expect since you can't really see that tilt on a screen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timxtr View Post
    Are you kidding?? Tell me there's a menu option for the original dialogue.

    Will the PMRC allow Rudy to gag on the ball or not??
    I'm referring to the altered speech in Red & Ted's. It really peeves me.
    Last edited by timxtr; 05-30-2019 at 04:21 AM.

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    Member Klopek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingerik View Post
    The bottom of that loop is tilted northwards, so the ball will fall towards the exit hole if it doesn't make it around the loop. It's not magic, just the ball falling in a direction you don't expect since you can't really see that tilt on a screen.
    Thanks. That's good to know and I did expect the real table would have some fail safes, however my reference to magic physics on the Zen iteration is that the ball stopped dead at the bottom and then after a few moments of being completely static shot back up and out of the ramp hole. It didn't roll naturally. No worries though, just glad they had measures in place.

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klopek View Post
    Thanks. That's good to know and I did expect the real table would have some fail safes, however my reference to magic physics on the Zen iteration is that the ball stopped dead at the bottom and then after a few moments of being completely static shot back up and out of the ramp hole. It didn't roll naturally. No worries though, just glad they had measures in place.
    At least we don't have to "call arcade attendant" only for it to never work!
    I'm just sayin'

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    Senior Member wolfson's Avatar
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    nice

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    Senior Member mystman12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timxtr View Post
    I'm referring to the altered speech in Red & Ted's. It really peeves me.
    What's altered?
    "What is life anyway, when compared to the immortality of a high score?" - Soos

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    Senior Member zmcvay's Avatar
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    Interesting that for once, the table goal on Zen is harder than TPA. Zen wants a 10+ million Clown Time score for the Hurricane achievement where TPA only wanted 5 million for the goal. Got to 9.5 million once and screamed when the ball missed the Comet on the last shot.

    And despite the wording, just scoring 10 million during clown time apparently isn't enough, I got a 16 million Palace Jackpot during one clown time (8M with the x2 score bonus wizard skill active) and the goal didn't pop. The Wizard skill also doesn't seem to affect the registered Clown time total.

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    My concerns about Red & Ted's having the voices changed were unfounded.

    Somehow, the volume for them was set to very low when I first played the game -all other games in this pack had voice setting at levels I could hear.

    In the options for sound I was able to turn the voice levels up.

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    Senior Member Tarek Oberdieck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zmcvay View Post
    The Wizard skill also doesn't seem to affect the registered Clown time total.
    That is mentioned in the table guide.

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    Senior Member zmcvay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarek Oberdieck View Post
    That is mentioned in the table guide.
    Can't find that note in the Guide myself (on Steam), but it makes sense as the clown time bonus isn't added as score during play, but only tallied a the end of the ball as a bonus, so there's no reason the score multiplier wizard power should affect it while in clown time.

    Eventually got it by activating multiball before clown time and looping as many balls through the Hurricane ramp as I could. I have an easier time looping Hurricane than Comet.

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    Senior Member Tarek Oberdieck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zmcvay View Post
    Can't find that note in the Guide myself
    Sorry, it wasn't the guide. There's a small hint in the description of the Multiball Score Bonus Upgrade: Clowns need not apply...

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    Senior Member Pinballwiz45b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarek Oberdieck View Post
    Sorry, it wasn't the guide. There's a small hint in the description of the Multiball Score Bonus Upgrade: Clowns need not apply...
    It says that for every table.

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    Senior Member MBeeching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingerik View Post
    This is true to the real table. There's a dip in the ramp, and if the ball doesn't have enough momentum to make it up the incline from there, there's an exit for the ball to fall out to the side. I think the ramp shot still counts, the switch is before/above that area.
    I'm convinced there's a global issue relating to excessive spin and influence upon ball momentum. I've knocked up some diagrams to illustrate:


    White Water
    Clockwise > upper right flipper > Insanity Falls > Ball is still clockwise which pulls it back




    Medieval Madness
    Clockwise spin off left flipper > Dragon ramp > Apex > Ball is still clockwise which pulls it back




    Theatre of Magic
    Anti-clockwise off right flipper > Left orbit > Apex > Ball is still anti-clockwise which pulls it back




    The initial spin is too strong so it continues influencing the ball when it reaches various points on the table. This results in severe loss of speed and often a complete change of direction, surely this rotational force should be fading much earlier given the ball's direction of travel?

    It's a shame there are no cosmetic options on the PC version as that could make it easier to prove what the ball is doing. Hope that explanation is clear enough, thoughts or opinions extremely welcome
    Last edited by MBeeching; 05-30-2019 at 10:45 AM.

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    Senior Member Tarek Oberdieck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinballwiz45b View Post
    It says that for every table.
    Ok, forget it. Indeed the clown scores never doubles. That's the original WMS ROM setting. Maybe you can double the score during the bonus count with Zen's score boost. but I guess that doesn't award the achivement...

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    Senior Member zmcvay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarek Oberdieck View Post
    Maybe you can double the score during the bonus count with Zen's score boost. but I guess that doesn't award the achivement...
    It might work to use the wizard power at end of ball on a 5+ million Clown Time, honestly I didn't think to try that until after I already got the goal.

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    The recreations are really nice.

    If you wanted to make White Water REALLY authentic, you could add the sound of the ball hitting the glass when traveling down the waterfall ramp (hits the glass on the way up closer to the end of the ramp).

    I will say that the ball seems to fly down the middle in Road Show (faster than I remember on any of the actual RS pins I played back in the day).

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