Big Bear City Council considers lifting pinball ban

Shaneus · Jan 29, 2014

Eegah said:
One of the larger pure-pinball rooms around is Lyons Classic Pinball in Lyons, Colorado, population 2,033. Went there last summer for my first real-table games in over a decade and it was great. They were doing good business that day, but there was also a huge bluegrass festival or something in town and the place was packed.

Three weeks later Lyons was on the news as the epicenter of the great flood last year, but the pinball place escaped unharmed. PAPA's doing a webcast there for a tourney in a couple months.

It features heavily in the most recent PAPA.tv episode

soundwave106 · Jan 29, 2014

brakel said:
It didn't really have anything to do with flippers or the lack of them. Most of the pinball machine bans weren't lifted until after the landmark testimony before a New York City committee in 1976 showing that pinball was skill based. 1976 was well after the addition of flippers to machines.

The bans were drafted when pinball was flipperless. While some were no more innocent than a bagatelle game in a box, some of them were used as gambling devices... some were even *designed* with payout in mind. (Some old promo ads from the IPDB show this, like this one and this one.) Basically think of a pachinko machine that is shaped like a pinball and you get the drift.

With flippers and no payouts, pinball becomes more of a game of skill from the 1950s onward. It's easier to pass laws in a state of outrage than it is to roll back antiquated laws in a state of rationality though. I'd find it funny if a town had a pinball ban but didn't ban, say, some of those ticket-prize dispensing machines (some of which really are far more "games of chance" than pinball!).

brakel · Jan 29, 2014

soundwave106 said:
The bans were drafted when pinball was flipperless. While some were no more innocent than a bagatelle game in a box, some of them were used as gambling devices... some were even *designed* with payout in mind. (Some old promo ads from the IPDB show this, like this one and this one.) Basically think of a pachinko machine that is shaped like a pinball and you get the drift.

With flippers and no payouts, pinball becomes more of a game of skill from the 1950s onward. It's easier to pass laws in a state of outrage than it is to roll back antiquated laws in a state of rationality though. I'd find it funny if a town had a pinball ban but didn't ban, say, some of those ticket-prize dispensing machines (some of which really are far more "games of chance" than pinball!).

It was quite clear that during the first half of the seventies that large cities like New York and Chicago were continuing to ban pinball not because of atrophy but because they still considered pinball with flippers to be gambling machines. People in the arcade business were trying for years to get laws changed so they could setup their arcades in New York.

SKILL_SHOT · Jan 29, 2014

Pinball is STILL illegal for minors in South Carolina

brakel · Jan 29, 2014

SKILL_SHOT said:
Pinball is STILL illegal for minors in South Carolina

Pinball is still illegal in many places. I think video arcades are still illegal in my home town. Not that anyone is trying to open one there now.

vikingerik · Jan 30, 2014

neglectoid said:
I always wondered if LaGuardia airport has pins in the airport.

I was last there about five years ago. It had a small arcade with some racing game or two, some claw machines, and a Ms Pac/Galaga. No pinball but Galaga occupied my time well enough.

SpiffyRob · Jan 30, 2014

SKILL_SHOT said:
Pinball is STILL illegal for minors in South Carolina

If that's true, it's only selectively enforced, if at all. I was in Charleston over the holidays and saw plenty of kids playing a TZ I found on location.

Buzz1126 · Jan 31, 2014

Jeff Strong said:
Yes, it's true. It was actually Roger Sharpe who actually works with Farsight (obtaining licenses):

"In 1976, Roger Sharpe stood before the New York City Council, with all the pressure in the world on his shoulders. He explained that if he pulled the plunger back just the right amount, the ball would go in a certain lane. He pulled back the plunger, and the ball went right into the lane he had pointed out previously. The head of the council announced that he had seen enough, and pinball was soon legal. The decision spread through out the country, and pinball was soon legal everywhere."

http://pinball.wikia.com/wiki/Roger_Sharpe

Well, I think we all owe a debt of gratitude to Mr Sharpe. Imagine, he pulls the plunger back just a tiny bit harder, or doesn't pull it back hard enough, and pinball remains illegal in the state of New York. Then the rest of the US takes notice and, like during Prohibition, the Feds are taking sledge hammers to all the classics EM tables. With no demand, the solid state are never produced. No Sterns. With no pinball, maybe video games become more popular, and home consoles are created earlier and better. Imagine the Atari 2600 under your Christmas in 1970 and a PS4 by the mid-Eightes.

So, thank you Roger Sharpe,

invitro · Jan 31, 2014

In 1988-1989 I hung out a lot at a newsstand that had an F-14 Tomcat, Robocop and Shinobi video games, and a 1970s bingo machine. The proprietor paid out for credits on the bingo. I sucked at pinball (or bingo) then, but my buddy was pretty good and may have broken even playing the bingo. The owner eventually paid us for credits left on the F-14. It wasn't a seedy place except for all the dirty magazines (and dirty old men buying them).

I bet you could find a bingo still used for gambling now if you were in the right part of the country and looked hard enough.

brakel · Jan 31, 2014

Buzz1126 said:
Well, I think we all owe a debt of gratitude to Mr Sharpe. Imagine, he pulls the plunger back just a tiny bit harder, or doesn't pull it back hard enough, and pinball remains illegal in the state of New York. Then the rest of the US takes notice and, like during Prohibition, the Feds are taking sledge hammers to all the classics EM tables. With no demand, the solid state are never produced. No Sterns. With no pinball, maybe video games become more popular, and home consoles are created earlier and better. Imagine the Atari 2600 under your Christmas in 1970 and a PS4 by the mid-Eightes.

So, thank you Roger Sharpe,

Your dates don't quite add up there. The pinball ban wasn't lifted until 1976 so if in your alternative world where the New York ban inspires video game industry shouldn't we have had that Atari 2600 in 1970? The ban was in full effect then. New York, Chicago and many other cities.

What I think is funny is that since so many pinball machines were made in Chicago, the law in Chicago was only against the public playing and display of pinball. During these dark times the European market is what helped keep pinball afloat. That and camp grounds. During the 70's I don't think I ever went to a campground that didn't have pinball.

smbhax · Feb 1, 2014

brakel said:
During the 70's I don't think I ever went to a campground that didn't have pinball.

Outside? : o

rehtroboi40 · Feb 1, 2014

Espy said:
Sounds like one of those laws that was put in place decades ago and forgotten about. Just now they're discovering it and overturning it.

I don't know which is worse, ridiculous and obscure laws, or the overzealous authorities who try to enforce them.

On another note, hopefully it will soon be legal to open a Pinball Arcade on the 360.

brakel · Feb 1, 2014

smbhax said:
Outside? : o

No, inside. Pretty much every campground in the 70's and 80's had a store (like a small convenience store), an open room with a piano and a game room with a few tables, board games, ping-pong and/or pool and a pinball machine or two. Later there would be a mixture of pinball and video games. There was a whole culture around the camping scene with Friday night singalongs and Saturday night talent contests or other games. We were never into the culture of camping. My Dad liked to travel. My Dad was a guidance counselor at our high school and my mom was a school bus driver. How do you travel on a public school budget? Camping!

Buzz1126 · Feb 1, 2014

brakel said:
Your dates don't quite add up there. The pinball ban wasn't lifted until 1976 so if in your alternative world where the New York ban inspires video game industry shouldn't we have had that Atari 2600 in 1970? The ban was in full effect then. New York, Chicago and many other cities.

What I think is funny is that since so many pinball machines were made in Chicago, the law in Chicago was only against the public playing and display of pinball. During these dark times the European market is what helped keep pinball afloat. That and camp grounds. During the 70's I don't think I ever went to a campground that didn't have pinball.

You're right, they don't. I guess I was thinking along the lines of car manufacturing, where car models are designed several years before they're built.
And I too remember pinball machines at campgrounds! Until recently, we had a motor home and took a three week trip out West! At the time, the kids hated it, but now say it was the best vacation ever!

Baramos · Feb 4, 2014

In regards to the Roger Sharpe story, according to a more in-depth article I read he didn't just make a shot with the plunger. He did several other called shots as well off the flippers. And it wasn't some single judge witnessing it but a group of city council members and so forth.

SpiffyRob · Feb 4, 2014

Not sure if this was the one you read, but it's a good one: How One Perfect Shot Saved Pinball From Being Illegal

And a great pic:

Jeff Strong · Feb 4, 2014

Check out that cookie duster!

Baramos · Feb 5, 2014

That wasn't the article but it was definitely more in-depth than the Wikipedia entry. Good read.

FurVid · Feb 5, 2014

The first issue of "Pinball Magazine" (really more of a book) has a very nice extended interview with this guy. Unfortunately, it appears that issue is sold old. They mention on the site that it might still be available at some vendors/shows:

http://www.pinball-magazine.com/?p=1403

My local arcade has a "Sharpshooter" (pun intended?) -- love the backglass:

http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2113&picno=12765&zoom=1

Big Bear City Council considers lifting pinball ban

New member

New member

New member

Banned

New member

Active member

New member

New member

New member

New member

Active member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

Moderator

New member

New member