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Other Zen Pinball Games & General Discussion
Flipper control and advanced skills
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<blockquote data-quote="crazyflipperfingers" data-source="post: 285018" data-attributes="member: 312"><p>I was very excited when I saw the video they put out prior to the official release of Williams where they showed all the flipper "tricks" but, like you, I've found that the reality is really lacking. </p><p></p><p>It IS possible to do live catches. I've done it a few times but it definitely does not seem like real life. IRL, I am able to pull of live catches in about a third of my attempts. Let me clarify though. Normally a successful live catch will deaden the momentum of the ball enough that you can get a trap on the flipper. Most of the time though, the ball will bounce a little. If you watch "skills" videos, they always show a live catch where the ball "magically" stops completely dead on the flipper. It's not usually that graceful. In FX3, like I said, I've done a few (let me stress, very few) live catches, but they've always been of the "magic stop" type. It seems as though you either get the full stop or nothing. Look at Fish Tales, off the plunge that ball will bounce half way up the table on a botched live catch off of the left flipper. In general, the ball speeds seem a bit fast, and the flippers seem way too bouncy to do live catches.</p><p></p><p>Drop catches are a different story. I've never pulled off a drop catch in Classic Single Player mode. I have done loop passes, where you drop the flipper as the ball hits it after a complete orbit and it takes some of the momentum off of the ball as it bounces to the other flipper, like in Attack From Mars or Medieval Madness, but never a drop catch. I'm not sure if it's possible. However, in Single Player mode (Zen physics) I HAVE seen drop catches. I was not trying for them on purpose, but during multiball in Junkyard, I've done them "accidentally". I've seen that happen several times. My guess is, again, that in Classic Single Player the flippers are just too bouncy, but in regular Single Player they are dead enough to allow it to happen. I need to purchase the newer packs and experiment some more, but the drop catches aren't happening for me at all with what I've got.</p><p></p><p>Tip passes (flick passes, whatever) may be possible, but I haven't pulled them off. Like you said, I have a feeling It might just be down to my controller though. I'm using the bumpers on an Xbox 360 controller. If I do it just right, I can see partial flips of the flipper, but during play when I have a ball rolling towards the end of the flipper, I'm never able to just do a soft flick to get it over to the other flipper (try this off the plunge on Junkyard, ain't happening for me). Again, seems possible, but I can't do it and it might just be down to the controller. Does anyone have a suggestion of a better controller to use where this works?</p><p></p><p>Finally, cradle separations. This is the one flipper skill where I'm pretty happy with Zen's implementation. Cradle separations completely sucked in TPA. You would always get a full strength flip and the balls would all go to hell. In FX3 they work pretty good. This is another reason I believe that tip passes might be achievable. </p><p></p><p>I really hope Zen has another go at a flipper physics retune. To be fair, physics are MUCH better than TPA and I'm thankful for that, but I'm going to keep offering constructive criticism in the hope that they eventually perfect them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="crazyflipperfingers, post: 285018, member: 312"] I was very excited when I saw the video they put out prior to the official release of Williams where they showed all the flipper "tricks" but, like you, I've found that the reality is really lacking. It IS possible to do live catches. I've done it a few times but it definitely does not seem like real life. IRL, I am able to pull of live catches in about a third of my attempts. Let me clarify though. Normally a successful live catch will deaden the momentum of the ball enough that you can get a trap on the flipper. Most of the time though, the ball will bounce a little. If you watch "skills" videos, they always show a live catch where the ball "magically" stops completely dead on the flipper. It's not usually that graceful. In FX3, like I said, I've done a few (let me stress, very few) live catches, but they've always been of the "magic stop" type. It seems as though you either get the full stop or nothing. Look at Fish Tales, off the plunge that ball will bounce half way up the table on a botched live catch off of the left flipper. In general, the ball speeds seem a bit fast, and the flippers seem way too bouncy to do live catches. Drop catches are a different story. I've never pulled off a drop catch in Classic Single Player mode. I have done loop passes, where you drop the flipper as the ball hits it after a complete orbit and it takes some of the momentum off of the ball as it bounces to the other flipper, like in Attack From Mars or Medieval Madness, but never a drop catch. I'm not sure if it's possible. However, in Single Player mode (Zen physics) I HAVE seen drop catches. I was not trying for them on purpose, but during multiball in Junkyard, I've done them "accidentally". I've seen that happen several times. My guess is, again, that in Classic Single Player the flippers are just too bouncy, but in regular Single Player they are dead enough to allow it to happen. I need to purchase the newer packs and experiment some more, but the drop catches aren't happening for me at all with what I've got. Tip passes (flick passes, whatever) may be possible, but I haven't pulled them off. Like you said, I have a feeling It might just be down to my controller though. I'm using the bumpers on an Xbox 360 controller. If I do it just right, I can see partial flips of the flipper, but during play when I have a ball rolling towards the end of the flipper, I'm never able to just do a soft flick to get it over to the other flipper (try this off the plunge on Junkyard, ain't happening for me). Again, seems possible, but I can't do it and it might just be down to the controller. Does anyone have a suggestion of a better controller to use where this works? Finally, cradle separations. This is the one flipper skill where I'm pretty happy with Zen's implementation. Cradle separations completely sucked in TPA. You would always get a full strength flip and the balls would all go to hell. In FX3 they work pretty good. This is another reason I believe that tip passes might be achievable. I really hope Zen has another go at a flipper physics retune. To be fair, physics are MUCH better than TPA and I'm thankful for that, but I'm going to keep offering constructive criticism in the hope that they eventually perfect them. [/QUOTE]
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