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Farsight Studios
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
Is TPA alone enough for you, or are you also buying into Zen’s Williams app?
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<blockquote data-quote="shutyertrap" data-source="post: 292870" data-attributes="member: 134"><p>The difference between how Zen does their ramps and FarSight did theirs is of note. </p><p></p><p>In essence FarSight's engine never had a way for the ball to travel up and down in 3D space. Jared explained it in our podcast at one time that it is nothing more than a layering of planes, where the ball gets 'transferred' from one to the other but technically is still on the same z axis. We always referred to it as 'vacuum' ramps because it was noticeable how the ball seemed to get pulled to complete its travel despite visibly not having enough momentum to do so. Later FarSight got better at hiding this behavior, putting in conditions that would have the ball roll 'back down' a ramp. This is also why their lighting only bloomed out horizontally and not vertically. A lot of ball movement used to also be on 'railroads', in that it had the exact same path of travel every single time when dropping from certain locations. I used to exploit this on Ripleys all the time, where there was a sequence of the ball coming out of the right eject that had 5 points of contact the ball bounced against and would land on your extended flipper precisely at the end each time without fail. I showed this to the guys one time while visiting the studio, and they couldn't believe it. Eventually they put in some randomization, but that sequence of bounces is still there, just not every time.</p><p></p><p>I can't say for sure if Zen has z axis movement either. I have seen the ball jump before, but it's rare so might be tied into other actions. What Zen does have is surface tension and ball friction as their ball legitimately spins (FarSight only simulated the look of it spinning). I suspect the issue with Road Show, that left ramp in particular, is the same thing that eventually got fixed on Medieval Madness' dragon ramp. There was too much friction with the plastic surface, so the ball spin over engaged with it, preventing it from traveling around when it made contact with the side walls of the ramp. The fix seems to be them lowering that surface tension, thus making the ball glide on past. I'll try and remember to bring this up again next time I'm lucky enough to chat with Deep.</p><p></p><p>What's always been funny to me is I have never played two different machines of the same title that played identical. When talking about machines that are 30 years old, that's really the case, even when they've been fully restored. Machines on location? How many times have we played one with weak flippers or broken toys that you simply have to adapt to. I watched a vid featuring some pinball savant who said he uses the first ball to find the obvious deficiencies of a machine and then just shoots for what works properly. He even dominated a machine with one bad flipper by making adjustments to his play. When people say Road Show is "unplayable" because you can't shoot the back ramp from anything but a trapped ball, they're being stubborn. I'm not saying it's ideal, but that shot isn't even of huge importance (and again it is makeable from a trapped ball). </p><p></p><p>And I still don't know what people are saying regarding WH2O's music. Anyone have an A/B comparison to post?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="shutyertrap, post: 292870, member: 134"] The difference between how Zen does their ramps and FarSight did theirs is of note. In essence FarSight's engine never had a way for the ball to travel up and down in 3D space. Jared explained it in our podcast at one time that it is nothing more than a layering of planes, where the ball gets 'transferred' from one to the other but technically is still on the same z axis. We always referred to it as 'vacuum' ramps because it was noticeable how the ball seemed to get pulled to complete its travel despite visibly not having enough momentum to do so. Later FarSight got better at hiding this behavior, putting in conditions that would have the ball roll 'back down' a ramp. This is also why their lighting only bloomed out horizontally and not vertically. A lot of ball movement used to also be on 'railroads', in that it had the exact same path of travel every single time when dropping from certain locations. I used to exploit this on Ripleys all the time, where there was a sequence of the ball coming out of the right eject that had 5 points of contact the ball bounced against and would land on your extended flipper precisely at the end each time without fail. I showed this to the guys one time while visiting the studio, and they couldn't believe it. Eventually they put in some randomization, but that sequence of bounces is still there, just not every time. I can't say for sure if Zen has z axis movement either. I have seen the ball jump before, but it's rare so might be tied into other actions. What Zen does have is surface tension and ball friction as their ball legitimately spins (FarSight only simulated the look of it spinning). I suspect the issue with Road Show, that left ramp in particular, is the same thing that eventually got fixed on Medieval Madness' dragon ramp. There was too much friction with the plastic surface, so the ball spin over engaged with it, preventing it from traveling around when it made contact with the side walls of the ramp. The fix seems to be them lowering that surface tension, thus making the ball glide on past. I'll try and remember to bring this up again next time I'm lucky enough to chat with Deep. What's always been funny to me is I have never played two different machines of the same title that played identical. When talking about machines that are 30 years old, that's really the case, even when they've been fully restored. Machines on location? How many times have we played one with weak flippers or broken toys that you simply have to adapt to. I watched a vid featuring some pinball savant who said he uses the first ball to find the obvious deficiencies of a machine and then just shoots for what works properly. He even dominated a machine with one bad flipper by making adjustments to his play. When people say Road Show is "unplayable" because you can't shoot the back ramp from anything but a trapped ball, they're being stubborn. I'm not saying it's ideal, but that shot isn't even of huge importance (and again it is makeable from a trapped ball). And I still don't know what people are saying regarding WH2O's music. Anyone have an A/B comparison to post? [/QUOTE]
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