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Farsight Studios
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
Platform Specific
Playstation 4
Proposed PS4 Retail Release Discussion
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<blockquote data-quote="Rudy" data-source="post: 90271" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>I think you're being a little bit relaxed about the pricing, as I've mentioned before, it looks like they've only got a good deal right now because the license holders have a chunk of each sale. As soon as a person buys a table the platform gets a cut, the money is then passed through Farsight where they give their license holders a cut and then what's left they have. If it wasn't for digital media then we wouldn't be able to have licensed tables in the first place (note the Gottlieb/Williams HOF collections having no licensed tables) because Farsight would have to pay the license holders up front as the physical product is being made at the CD pressing centre, not on the game servers as the person buys the product.</p><p></p><p>To manufacture 100,000 discs, manuals and cases alone you'd be looking at $400k-1.2m before we start looking at the licensing of tables themselves. And that's just counting a theoretical situation where everything can be fit on one blu-ray, if it was a multi-disc release with each disc containing say, 70 tables (probably much less considering that future tables on future platforms may well take up a huge amount of space uncompressed) then I'd be guessing at $1.8-2.1m.</p><p></p><p>Each game would presumably hold around 100 tables (core+s1+s2+s3+s4+s5?) and if we're going by PS3/Android pricing schemes then each table would cost more than a dollar to license, maybe even two or more for premium tables. So $80 (for unlicensed) and $60-70 for the liscenced tables. Approximately $150 worth of licensing per disc.</p><p></p><p>So let's do some quick multiplication.</p><p></p><p>150 x 100,000 = $15,000,000</p><p></p><p>Already alarm bells are ringing.</p><p></p><p>But add that to the $1.8m = $16.8m</p><p></p><p>Divide all of that by 100,000 people and you're looking at a game that is approximately $168 per person. From that I'm probably missing a bunch of extras (like paying Sony for having a game on their platform, paying designers and everyone over at farsight etc.) AND I'm doing the terrible thing of trying to work it all in dollars when I'm much used to pounds (I'm assuming each season pack costs $30 to the UK's £25, because if not then that's another $10-15 per season pack pushing it up to well over $200)</p><p></p><p>Oh, and profit, Farsight's going to want to break at least even if not a little more for all the legwork involved in such a potentially catastrophic idea.</p><p></p><p>I'm pretty sure that a kick-starter for $16.8m is dead in the water. Even halving the price is dead in the water. Even halving THAT price is dead in the water. By contrast, right now Ubuntu (the largest Linux platform) is doing a kickstarter kinda project for releasing a new phone with a total of $32m. If Ubuntu, with all the tech people in the world wanting the best phone in the world can't come close to that figure then there is no hope for such a thing here.</p><p></p><p>So without a kickstarter either Farsight will have to make copies to order (pushing the $200 figure even higher because low production runs of discs cost more per disk than higher production runs). This assumes two things 1) that people are willing to spend that much on a game and 2) that their intended platform is the PS4. Pinball nuts may well have chosen the PC over the PS4 over potential cabinet support, so take those guys out of the equation and who do you have left? And of course, when the PS4 era is over and the PS5 comes out with no backward compatibility you're kinda stuffed there too.</p><p></p><p>Basically, it's far too much effort when people could just buy a copy of the game on Steam and it'll last as long as Steam is around. Yeah, Steam could shut down in 10 years time, but try and buy an original Xbox in 5 years time to play exclusive games and you'll realise just how expensive and fragile modern technology is. Even with a PS4 disc, what happens if it gets scratched? Farsight may no longer have the ability to reprint said copies of the game once their licenses expire so all that money has gone to waste.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rudy, post: 90271, member: 1233"] I think you're being a little bit relaxed about the pricing, as I've mentioned before, it looks like they've only got a good deal right now because the license holders have a chunk of each sale. As soon as a person buys a table the platform gets a cut, the money is then passed through Farsight where they give their license holders a cut and then what's left they have. If it wasn't for digital media then we wouldn't be able to have licensed tables in the first place (note the Gottlieb/Williams HOF collections having no licensed tables) because Farsight would have to pay the license holders up front as the physical product is being made at the CD pressing centre, not on the game servers as the person buys the product. To manufacture 100,000 discs, manuals and cases alone you'd be looking at $400k-1.2m before we start looking at the licensing of tables themselves. And that's just counting a theoretical situation where everything can be fit on one blu-ray, if it was a multi-disc release with each disc containing say, 70 tables (probably much less considering that future tables on future platforms may well take up a huge amount of space uncompressed) then I'd be guessing at $1.8-2.1m. Each game would presumably hold around 100 tables (core+s1+s2+s3+s4+s5?) and if we're going by PS3/Android pricing schemes then each table would cost more than a dollar to license, maybe even two or more for premium tables. So $80 (for unlicensed) and $60-70 for the liscenced tables. Approximately $150 worth of licensing per disc. So let's do some quick multiplication. 150 x 100,000 = $15,000,000 Already alarm bells are ringing. But add that to the $1.8m = $16.8m Divide all of that by 100,000 people and you're looking at a game that is approximately $168 per person. From that I'm probably missing a bunch of extras (like paying Sony for having a game on their platform, paying designers and everyone over at farsight etc.) AND I'm doing the terrible thing of trying to work it all in dollars when I'm much used to pounds (I'm assuming each season pack costs $30 to the UK's £25, because if not then that's another $10-15 per season pack pushing it up to well over $200) Oh, and profit, Farsight's going to want to break at least even if not a little more for all the legwork involved in such a potentially catastrophic idea. I'm pretty sure that a kick-starter for $16.8m is dead in the water. Even halving the price is dead in the water. Even halving THAT price is dead in the water. By contrast, right now Ubuntu (the largest Linux platform) is doing a kickstarter kinda project for releasing a new phone with a total of $32m. If Ubuntu, with all the tech people in the world wanting the best phone in the world can't come close to that figure then there is no hope for such a thing here. So without a kickstarter either Farsight will have to make copies to order (pushing the $200 figure even higher because low production runs of discs cost more per disk than higher production runs). This assumes two things 1) that people are willing to spend that much on a game and 2) that their intended platform is the PS4. Pinball nuts may well have chosen the PC over the PS4 over potential cabinet support, so take those guys out of the equation and who do you have left? And of course, when the PS4 era is over and the PS5 comes out with no backward compatibility you're kinda stuffed there too. Basically, it's far too much effort when people could just buy a copy of the game on Steam and it'll last as long as Steam is around. Yeah, Steam could shut down in 10 years time, but try and buy an original Xbox in 5 years time to play exclusive games and you'll realise just how expensive and fragile modern technology is. Even with a PS4 disc, what happens if it gets scratched? Farsight may no longer have the ability to reprint said copies of the game once their licenses expire so all that money has gone to waste. [/QUOTE]
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The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
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Proposed PS4 Retail Release Discussion
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