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Farsight Studios
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
Platform Specific
Macintosh
Slow downs on rMBP and El Capitan
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<blockquote data-quote="MagnumXL" data-source="post: 224633" data-attributes="member: 2512"><p>I don't know if he'll even be able to even FIND the problem. As I've mentioned above, this same problem appears in the PC (Windows) version if you don't have enough CPU (or more likely GPU) power for a given resolution and/or feature setting. I get ZERO slow-downs on my 2012 Quad i7 Mac Mini with an Intel 4000HD GPU at 1680x1050 (24" monitor's native resolution) with basic settings. In fact, the ONLY time I get the problem in OS X now is if I turn anti-alias up to 6x or 8x (fine at 2x or 4x or off). THEN it immediately goes slow-motion. THAT is the exact same thing as the PC version on my old AMD machine with an NVidia 7900GT except it will start doing it on a table like Junkyard when more than one ball is on the table at once (multiball) IF ball reflections are turned on. Turning on Anti-Alias will also cause the issue. It's simply not up to those settings. My 2008 Macbook Pro with an NVidia 8600M GT will be fine if booted into Windows with ball reflections turned on, but turning up anti-alias will cause the problem eventually (possibly on a larger external monitor; I haven't tried it lately on that). I've got the Steam version now (yeah I bought it AFTER I already bought a lot of App Store tables because it was on sale (1st two seasons half off) and I wanted to try the PC version).</p><p></p><p>My point is that I think it's possible that the Mac version doesn't have anything wrong with it based on the fact I don't hae the problem on my Macs at the above given resolutions until I turn up Anti-Alias to unreasonable values for that GPU. You've got people in this thread talking about running this game on RETINA Macs. That's resolutions 2x or more what I'm running (newer Macs up to 5k monitors). It's VERY possible that these machines simply cannot run the game at native resolutions and/or turning up settings too much. It's also possible certain GPUs have something wrong in their driver feature set that is making them behave like they cannot handle a given resolution or setting (or something in Pinball Arcade it's using that some drivers don't handle right in OS X). I don't see other people commenting whether they tried the same machine booting into Windows with Boot Camp for example to compare or if they tried turning off all anti-alias settings and lowering the resolution as low as possible to see if it makes any difference. What CPU and what GPU are they using? How can they hope for Farsight to fix the problem when they don't provide enough information? </p><p></p><p>JohnATI provides his machine specs, but doesn't comment on the machine's resolutions he's tried or settings used? Native resolution in notebook mode? External monitor? Have you tried lowering the resolution? Do you have post-processing turned off? Do you have anti-alias turned off? Do you have Windows on it and tried that version (demo even?). I see you have two GPUs (Retina Iris Pro and AMD Radeon R9 M370X). Have you tried it with both GPUs? With all the settings turned down on both? Was there ANY differences? </p><p></p><p>I used to make Visual Pinball tables. When people reported bugs, I needed to be able to recreate them. If it was just on one machine with a strange GPU, they were probably out of luck. I realize Apple only makes so many configurations, but it's hard to believe that both the Iris Pro and the AMD are both causing slow-motion problems unless your settings are too high (yeah they shouldn't be, but with a Retina machine who knows; Apple had "choppy" Mission Control animations on some Retina models until El Capitan changed the GUI to the new Metal API. Apple has bad drivers often and they use under-powered GPUs for Retina type resolutions, IMO. Gaming at Retina resolutions (especially the new 4K and 5K iMacs) is ill-advised, IMO. Like I said, the Intel GPUs couldn't even animate the Mission Control feature properly in Yosemite at Retina resolutions. That's sad and that's why I can't automatically dismiss the possibility this is simply the result of too little GPU power for a given resolution and setting. As I said, I get smooth play on my Mac Mini Quad i7 at 1680x1050 in El Capitan, but if I turn Anti-Alias up to 6x or more, it goes slow motion instantly and stays there on newer tables. Turn Anti-Aliasing off or down to 4x or less and it's fine. But that's not even 1080p, let alone Retina resolutions. I realize the 4000HD is older, but it's also not trying to do Retina.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MagnumXL, post: 224633, member: 2512"] I don't know if he'll even be able to even FIND the problem. As I've mentioned above, this same problem appears in the PC (Windows) version if you don't have enough CPU (or more likely GPU) power for a given resolution and/or feature setting. I get ZERO slow-downs on my 2012 Quad i7 Mac Mini with an Intel 4000HD GPU at 1680x1050 (24" monitor's native resolution) with basic settings. In fact, the ONLY time I get the problem in OS X now is if I turn anti-alias up to 6x or 8x (fine at 2x or 4x or off). THEN it immediately goes slow-motion. THAT is the exact same thing as the PC version on my old AMD machine with an NVidia 7900GT except it will start doing it on a table like Junkyard when more than one ball is on the table at once (multiball) IF ball reflections are turned on. Turning on Anti-Alias will also cause the issue. It's simply not up to those settings. My 2008 Macbook Pro with an NVidia 8600M GT will be fine if booted into Windows with ball reflections turned on, but turning up anti-alias will cause the problem eventually (possibly on a larger external monitor; I haven't tried it lately on that). I've got the Steam version now (yeah I bought it AFTER I already bought a lot of App Store tables because it was on sale (1st two seasons half off) and I wanted to try the PC version). My point is that I think it's possible that the Mac version doesn't have anything wrong with it based on the fact I don't hae the problem on my Macs at the above given resolutions until I turn up Anti-Alias to unreasonable values for that GPU. You've got people in this thread talking about running this game on RETINA Macs. That's resolutions 2x or more what I'm running (newer Macs up to 5k monitors). It's VERY possible that these machines simply cannot run the game at native resolutions and/or turning up settings too much. It's also possible certain GPUs have something wrong in their driver feature set that is making them behave like they cannot handle a given resolution or setting (or something in Pinball Arcade it's using that some drivers don't handle right in OS X). I don't see other people commenting whether they tried the same machine booting into Windows with Boot Camp for example to compare or if they tried turning off all anti-alias settings and lowering the resolution as low as possible to see if it makes any difference. What CPU and what GPU are they using? How can they hope for Farsight to fix the problem when they don't provide enough information? JohnATI provides his machine specs, but doesn't comment on the machine's resolutions he's tried or settings used? Native resolution in notebook mode? External monitor? Have you tried lowering the resolution? Do you have post-processing turned off? Do you have anti-alias turned off? Do you have Windows on it and tried that version (demo even?). I see you have two GPUs (Retina Iris Pro and AMD Radeon R9 M370X). Have you tried it with both GPUs? With all the settings turned down on both? Was there ANY differences? I used to make Visual Pinball tables. When people reported bugs, I needed to be able to recreate them. If it was just on one machine with a strange GPU, they were probably out of luck. I realize Apple only makes so many configurations, but it's hard to believe that both the Iris Pro and the AMD are both causing slow-motion problems unless your settings are too high (yeah they shouldn't be, but with a Retina machine who knows; Apple had "choppy" Mission Control animations on some Retina models until El Capitan changed the GUI to the new Metal API. Apple has bad drivers often and they use under-powered GPUs for Retina type resolutions, IMO. Gaming at Retina resolutions (especially the new 4K and 5K iMacs) is ill-advised, IMO. Like I said, the Intel GPUs couldn't even animate the Mission Control feature properly in Yosemite at Retina resolutions. That's sad and that's why I can't automatically dismiss the possibility this is simply the result of too little GPU power for a given resolution and setting. As I said, I get smooth play on my Mac Mini Quad i7 at 1680x1050 in El Capitan, but if I turn Anti-Alias up to 6x or more, it goes slow motion instantly and stays there on newer tables. Turn Anti-Aliasing off or down to 4x or less and it's fine. But that's not even 1080p, let alone Retina resolutions. I realize the 4000HD is older, but it's also not trying to do Retina. [/QUOTE]
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The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
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Slow downs on rMBP and El Capitan
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