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Farsight Studios
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
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<blockquote data-quote="superballs" data-source="post: 95393" data-attributes="member: 341"><p>Last I checked, many people who absolutely love the game own several pinball machines, repair them, maintain them and also compare TPA to them favorably. TZ is a bit harder now that they've removed the wall in the bumpers despite it still being a bit easy, STTNG was said to be a lot closer in difficulty. Play Big Shot? That ones a cakewalk isn't it?</p><p></p><p>Now, let's highlight a few things:</p><p></p><p><strong>-Other people have done better work recreating pinball-tables in their sparetime. <a href="http://home.gethome.no/jpsalas/" target="_blank">http://home.gethome.no/jpsalas/</a></strong></p><p>JPSalas is one of my favorite table authors, but he's not even played many of the tables he's recreated (I've discussed this with him personall over EBD). His tables look exceptional, but don't play like their real counterparts either.</p><p></p><p><strong>-It does not try to recreate real pinball because it's not tight like a real table and it's severely dumbed down and inaccurate, probably done to earn a buck on random people while lying about the attempt to recreate pinball</strong></p><p>I'm really not sure what you mean by tight here. Yes TZ is a lot easier than the real table, which by the sounds of it is the only table you own. One member here compared STTNG directly to a real machine quite favorably. Some tables are easier than the real thing, others, not so much. I really won't be able to judge until they release a table I know like the back of my hand. BTW, since you brought VP into the mix with your previous argument. HS2 the Getaway by NF/UR is a wonderful recreation but because of a lack or real randomness, I had a 2.5 hour game where all I did was shoot the right loop over and over, and let the ball bounce off of the raised left flipper, into the 123 targets, and then dead-pass from the right flipper back to the left for another shot at the right loop. Easy EB from the freeway, and by the time I was done that, I was pretty close to fifth gear, get redline mania, get that EB, rinse lather repeat...</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>-Quantity over quality, way to many tables before even succeeding to recreate a single table up to a reasonable level of quality</strong></p><p>Out of the 26 or so tables released, I think only 2 could be considered train-wrecks. The rest have minor issues, usually small art issues. BK with it's scripting issues and CV is reported to have some major game-breakers. Most are beyond a "reasonable level of quality", in fact, most are great quality.</p><p></p><p><strong>-It makes you facepalm when you have the chance to compare it to a real machine</strong></p><p>TZ Maybe, I'm getting the impression you are basing your opinion heavily in relation to this table.</p><p></p><p><strong>-Several tables seem to have been released without enough playtesting and polishing, the initial release of Whirlwind was a disaster</strong></p><p>I have no argument here, I've barely played Whirlwind in either TPA or IRL, i think the biggest issues were that the disks had too much effect on the ball and they were too loud. Or are you making a pun? Clever you.</p><p></p><p><strong>-Errors in gameplay on several tables</strong></p><p>Some of the scripted tables yes, most of the emulated tables are fine, aside from the occasion where physics get funny.</p><p></p><p><strong>-Fails at simulating a coil driven flipper and does not have multiple triggers on the buttons so you can activate only the bottom flippers like on a real machine with more than 2 flippers</strong></p><p>PS3 has 2-stage flippers and the 360 would have if not for the Crave bankruptcy fiasco, which is completely out of Farsight's hands legally. I'm not sure about the PC version having it, I've only seen a few of the beta threads, and you've clearly stated that you've not given it a shot yet, leaving iOS as your only platform. Explain, kind sir, how you would implement two-stage flippers on a touch screen tablet. Don't give me external controller crap, give me a universal solution that everyone can use. Also note that some people use shake nudging, personally I hate reaching for other locations on the screen so added buttons are not an option for me, and also defeat the purpose of having fine control over multiple sets of flippers, they did it on a single button on real machines for a reason.</p><p></p><p>As for flipper physics, well, no game has that perfect. That said, although it can be difficult, it's possible to do nearly any flipper maneuvers in TPA, with i think live catches and cradle separation being the most difficult, but still possible.</p><p></p><p><strong>-Backhand shots are not possible like on a real machine, at least on some platforms.</strong></p><p>Like which platform?</p><p>It's possible on every platform I've used...which completely encompasses every platform you've used. In fact, I got Atlantis on RBION mainly by backhanding from the right flipper to the right ramp. Easiest way to make that shot during multiball.</p><p></p><p><strong>-Shot difficulty is way off</strong></p><p>Once you've learned a shot on a real table, the shots get easier and easier.</p><p>There are a couple shots that are easier than IRL, but a lot of the time, it's a question of the right momentum and the right time. Once TPA can implement ball spin into the engine, that will change. But "WAY OFF" is a bit of an exaggeration. </p><p></p><p><strong>-Unrealistic ball bouncing off the rubbers, especially on the ones at inlane/outlane</strong></p><p>I've played a lot of machines with similar ball bouncing. Actually, if you had specified "ToM bouncing is insanity in a mechanical box" I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly. Which tables do you actually play on TPA. Yeah Funhouse and BoP kinda suck in TPA, due to the main shots being way too easy. Hopefully they will be retuned, but most tables are great fun.</p><p></p><p><strong>I understand your excitement, but for people who really like pinball it's better to put down $1000-1500 for a modearate wear Funhouse or Whirlwind or any other decent to play cheap to buy machine instead of pretending TPA is fantastic.</strong></p><p></p><p>TPA is fantastic, let's just get that out of the way.</p><p>And yeah, of course it's just better since you are completely unable to put yourself in anyone else's shoes. So what about the guy who pays 2300$ a month for a small room in NYC split with 2 roommates? If he doesn't go out and buy a pinball table now it's because he doesn't really like pinball.</p><p></p><p>I'll go buy one right now too...the problem of space will correct itself quickly when my fiance moves all her space consuming stuff to a new place as well.</p><p>I mean seriously, the amount of energy that goes into accumulating 1000-1500$ seems to not be a factor here to you, but it is to some others...and having 26 well-recreated tables is more viable an option at approx 100$...a tenth of your low estimate here.</p><p></p><p>Welcome to the forums by the way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="superballs, post: 95393, member: 341"] Last I checked, many people who absolutely love the game own several pinball machines, repair them, maintain them and also compare TPA to them favorably. TZ is a bit harder now that they've removed the wall in the bumpers despite it still being a bit easy, STTNG was said to be a lot closer in difficulty. Play Big Shot? That ones a cakewalk isn't it? Now, let's highlight a few things: [B]-Other people have done better work recreating pinball-tables in their sparetime. [url]http://home.gethome.no/jpsalas/[/url][/B] JPSalas is one of my favorite table authors, but he's not even played many of the tables he's recreated (I've discussed this with him personall over EBD). His tables look exceptional, but don't play like their real counterparts either. [B]-It does not try to recreate real pinball because it's not tight like a real table and it's severely dumbed down and inaccurate, probably done to earn a buck on random people while lying about the attempt to recreate pinball[/B] I'm really not sure what you mean by tight here. Yes TZ is a lot easier than the real table, which by the sounds of it is the only table you own. One member here compared STTNG directly to a real machine quite favorably. Some tables are easier than the real thing, others, not so much. I really won't be able to judge until they release a table I know like the back of my hand. BTW, since you brought VP into the mix with your previous argument. HS2 the Getaway by NF/UR is a wonderful recreation but because of a lack or real randomness, I had a 2.5 hour game where all I did was shoot the right loop over and over, and let the ball bounce off of the raised left flipper, into the 123 targets, and then dead-pass from the right flipper back to the left for another shot at the right loop. Easy EB from the freeway, and by the time I was done that, I was pretty close to fifth gear, get redline mania, get that EB, rinse lather repeat... [B]-Quantity over quality, way to many tables before even succeeding to recreate a single table up to a reasonable level of quality[/B] Out of the 26 or so tables released, I think only 2 could be considered train-wrecks. The rest have minor issues, usually small art issues. BK with it's scripting issues and CV is reported to have some major game-breakers. Most are beyond a "reasonable level of quality", in fact, most are great quality. [B]-It makes you facepalm when you have the chance to compare it to a real machine[/B] TZ Maybe, I'm getting the impression you are basing your opinion heavily in relation to this table. [B]-Several tables seem to have been released without enough playtesting and polishing, the initial release of Whirlwind was a disaster[/B] I have no argument here, I've barely played Whirlwind in either TPA or IRL, i think the biggest issues were that the disks had too much effect on the ball and they were too loud. Or are you making a pun? Clever you. [B]-Errors in gameplay on several tables[/B] Some of the scripted tables yes, most of the emulated tables are fine, aside from the occasion where physics get funny. [B]-Fails at simulating a coil driven flipper and does not have multiple triggers on the buttons so you can activate only the bottom flippers like on a real machine with more than 2 flippers[/B] PS3 has 2-stage flippers and the 360 would have if not for the Crave bankruptcy fiasco, which is completely out of Farsight's hands legally. I'm not sure about the PC version having it, I've only seen a few of the beta threads, and you've clearly stated that you've not given it a shot yet, leaving iOS as your only platform. Explain, kind sir, how you would implement two-stage flippers on a touch screen tablet. Don't give me external controller crap, give me a universal solution that everyone can use. Also note that some people use shake nudging, personally I hate reaching for other locations on the screen so added buttons are not an option for me, and also defeat the purpose of having fine control over multiple sets of flippers, they did it on a single button on real machines for a reason. As for flipper physics, well, no game has that perfect. That said, although it can be difficult, it's possible to do nearly any flipper maneuvers in TPA, with i think live catches and cradle separation being the most difficult, but still possible. [B]-Backhand shots are not possible like on a real machine, at least on some platforms.[/B] Like which platform? It's possible on every platform I've used...which completely encompasses every platform you've used. In fact, I got Atlantis on RBION mainly by backhanding from the right flipper to the right ramp. Easiest way to make that shot during multiball. [B]-Shot difficulty is way off[/B] Once you've learned a shot on a real table, the shots get easier and easier. There are a couple shots that are easier than IRL, but a lot of the time, it's a question of the right momentum and the right time. Once TPA can implement ball spin into the engine, that will change. But "WAY OFF" is a bit of an exaggeration. [B]-Unrealistic ball bouncing off the rubbers, especially on the ones at inlane/outlane[/B] I've played a lot of machines with similar ball bouncing. Actually, if you had specified "ToM bouncing is insanity in a mechanical box" I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly. Which tables do you actually play on TPA. Yeah Funhouse and BoP kinda suck in TPA, due to the main shots being way too easy. Hopefully they will be retuned, but most tables are great fun. [B]I understand your excitement, but for people who really like pinball it's better to put down $1000-1500 for a modearate wear Funhouse or Whirlwind or any other decent to play cheap to buy machine instead of pretending TPA is fantastic.[/B] TPA is fantastic, let's just get that out of the way. And yeah, of course it's just better since you are completely unable to put yourself in anyone else's shoes. So what about the guy who pays 2300$ a month for a small room in NYC split with 2 roommates? If he doesn't go out and buy a pinball table now it's because he doesn't really like pinball. I'll go buy one right now too...the problem of space will correct itself quickly when my fiance moves all her space consuming stuff to a new place as well. I mean seriously, the amount of energy that goes into accumulating 1000-1500$ seems to not be a factor here to you, but it is to some others...and having 26 well-recreated tables is more viable an option at approx 100$...a tenth of your low estimate here. Welcome to the forums by the way. [/QUOTE]
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