The Mystery of Eight Ball Deluxe

EccentricFlower · Jul 26, 2015

I posted this in the #41 speculation thread, but I hadn't read far enough to realize that thread was basically already closed. So I'm reposting out here:

When I was attempting college (it didn't work out), circa 88-89, Eight Ball Deluxe was the one machine you could find EVERYWHERE. No matter what filthy bar you walked into, if they had any table at all, that was it. A thousand college hangouts, at least in the Deep South, resonated to the cries of "Quit talkin' and start chalkin'!" Even once pinball died, there still seemed to be more of these and TAF floating around than any other tables. (Obviously with TAF it was because there WERE more of them than any other tables.)

So how come Eight Ball Deluxe wasn't in, I dunno, season one? It seems like a really obvious choice for early adoption. Have there been licensing or other issues anyone's admitted to?

Understand, if I recall rightly, I didn't even LIKE the table very much - I'm just curious because so far TPA has covered pretty much all the tables you saw EVERYWHERE (except a few too expensive to license) and Eight Ball Deluxe is the big, very obvious exception to that rule.

Dedpop · Jul 26, 2015

I'm wondering too.

Gorgar · Jul 26, 2015

EBD should definitely be made. It is kind of like the previous generation's Addams Family in that it is the most recognizable table from that era. Releasing that table might even lead to an older crowd discovering TPA and give Farsight a good reason to release more late 70's and early 80's tables, thus increasing TPA's lifespan.

Unfortunately, Farsight tends to stay away from pre 1986 games (unless it is one that was released on one of the Hall of Fame discs). There was a Bally poll during season 2 in which EBD lost to Centaur by a thin margin. There was talk about releasing EBD later in season 2, but they had to renegotiate their deal with WMS, and Cue Ball Wizard (along with a pretty long string of other Gottliebs) was released instead.

Now, it has been a really long time since the last pool themed table was released and I really think it is time for EBD to be released. And I think there is a good chance of it coming this season.

Kolchak357 · Jul 26, 2015

I think we will see it eventually. Probably just spreading out the pool themed pins. I thought we might see Sharkeys Shootout as well, but I guess they are too similar. Hey if you can have Pin Bot and Jack Bot, why not Sharkeys and EBD?

Kratos3 · Jul 26, 2015

Gorgar said:
EBD should definitely be made. It is kind of like the previous generation's Addams Family in that it is the most recognizable table from that era. Releasing that table might even lead to an older crowd discovering TPA and give Farsight a good reason to release more late 70's and early 80's tables, thus increasing TPA's lifespan.

Unfortunately, Farsight tends to stay away from pre 1986 games (unless it is one that was released on one of the Hall of Fame discs). There was a Bally poll during season 2 in which EBD lost to Centaur by a thin margin. There was talk about releasing EBD later in season 2, but they had to renegotiate their deal with WMS, and Cue Ball Wizard (along with a pretty long string of other Gottliebs) was released instead.

Now, it has been a really long time since the last pool themed table was released and I really think it is time for EBD to be released. And I think there is a good chance of it coming this season.

This.

I really hope it comes out this season. I remember when I first started coming here(just after T2) people wouldn't shut up about it.

rehtroboi40 · Jul 26, 2015

Kratos3 said:
This.

I really hope it comes out this season. I remember when I first started coming here(just after T2) people wouldn't shut up about it.

I voted for EBD in the Bally 80's poll. Moreover, I remember the old mac version from the early 90's (Coming soon: Fun House LOL)-which I liked but was put off by the asinine difficulty. TPA would certainly do this classic some overdue justice.

rehtroboi40 · Jul 26, 2015

Gorgar said:
EBD should definitely be made. It is kind of like the previous generation's Addams Family in that it is the most recognizable table from that era. Releasing that table might even lead to an older crowd discovering TPA and give Farsight a good reason to release more late 70's and early 80's tables, thus increasing TPA's lifespan.

Unfortunately, Farsight tends to stay away from pre 1986 games (unless it is one that was released on one of the Hall of Fame discs). There was a Bally poll during season 2 in which EBD lost to Centaur by a thin margin. There was talk about releasing EBD later in season 2, but they had to renegotiate their deal with WMS, and Cue Ball Wizard (along with a pretty long string of other Gottliebs) was released instead.

Now, it has been a really long time since the last pool themed table was released and I really think it is time for EBD to be released. And I think there is a good chance of it coming this season.

No hint of Sorcerer..............

chinzman93 · Jul 27, 2015

+1 for EBD....This will hopefully be coming sooner rather than later...

Edit....Also +1 for Sorcerer

karl · Jul 27, 2015

EBD would be sweet. Man, I really would like more tables from this time-period.

soundwave106 · Jul 27, 2015

Dedpop said:
I'm wondering too.

DMD / 90s tables seem to sell the best (I guess), and there's a very vocal group that hates older tables. (Although there's another vocal group that wants more EMs and early SS... go figure.). It's also been a bit strange that there's been a bit more support (as in, people yapping about it in Facebook requests etc) for "cult classics" like Paragon and Centaur overall. Due to the results of the "pre 80s" pin poll, you'll probably see Paragon sooner than EBD I think. Hopefully EBD eventually makes it though.

It does make things interesting when you look at figures. If I pick 10,000 units as an arbitrary number... beyond 1986, there are 13 pins that meet this criteria. TPA has done 8 of them, with High Speed 2 on the way, F-14 likely soon, and the rest probably unobtainable due to licenses.

In contrast, there are *30* pins made from 1975-1982 that sold more than 10K units. TPA has done only four of them: Xenon, Firepower, Black Knight, and Gorgar. Three of them were probably mainly done because they were in the earlier Hall of Fame games. They don't always get a lot of love in the forums unfortunately, and I get the sense some of the conversions were "rush jobs" (I like Firepower a lot but the TPA conversion is buggy; the same goes for Black Knight).

I do like a bit of variety personally and would like to see some more tables from that era mixed in.

karl · Jul 27, 2015

Agree, soundwave, but I think they have learned their lesson since then. They did a good job with Centaur(it is a little bit too easy but otherwise great) and Xenon.

Edit: Both of them Bally games. Bodes well for Paragon, EBD and a couple of dozens other great Bally games from the early SS period

EldarOfSuburbia · Jul 27, 2015

Here's the 1971-1980 list of tables with 10,000+ units, according to IPDB:

http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?yr=1971-1980&prd=>9999&sortby=name&searchtype=advance

* = Licensed
+ = In TPA

SS:
1977-09 Eight Ball Bally SS 20,230
1979-01 Flash Williams SS 19,505
*1978-12 Playboy Bally SS 18,250
+1980-02 Firepower Williams SS 17,410
*1979-06 Kiss Bally SS 17,000
*1979-04 Star Trek Bally SS 16,842
1978-04 Mata Hari Bally SS 16,260
*1979-09 Harlem Globetrotters On Tour Bally SS 14,550
+1979-12 Gorgar Williams SS 14,000
*1977-06 Evel Knievel Bally SS 14,000
1978-01 Power Play Bally SS 13,750
+1980-11 Black Knight Williams SS 13,075
1978-05 Sinbad Gottlieb SS 12,950
1978-06 Strikes and Spares Bally SS 12,820
*1980-04 Space Invaders Bally SS 11,400
+1980-11 Xenon Bally SS 11,000
1980-02 Silverball Mania Bally SS 10,350
1979-10 Supersonic Bally SS 10,340
1978-08 Lost World Bally SS 10,330
1978-10 The Six Million Dollar Man Bally SS 10,320
1981-02 Flash Gordon Bally SS 10,000

SS Non-Commercial:
1976-10 Fireball Bally SS ~10,000

EM:
*1976-06 Capt. Fantastic and The Brown Dirt Cowboy Bally EM 16,155
1976-01 Space Mission Williams EM 11,652
1976-04 Royal Flush Gottlieb EM 12,250
1976-12 Grand Prix Williams EM 10,554
1975-12 Spirit of 76 Gottlieb EM 10,300
1976-07 Aztec Williams EM 10,150
1975-05 Wizard! Bally EM 10,005

Wolis · Jul 27, 2015

Yes, more from late 70s and early 80s is my vote. Would love to play Fire Power 2, Scorpion, Flash, Solar Fire, and what's that lizard one that, like solar fire, never made its way down to Australia. Oh and Pharaoh. (I guess you can spot the pattern here

David T. Melnick · Jul 27, 2015

soundwave106 said:
DMD / 90s tables seem to sell the best (I guess), and there's a very vocal group that hates older tables. (Although there's another vocal group that wants more EMs and early SS... go figure.). It's also been a bit strange that there's been a bit more support (as in, people yapping about it in Facebook requests etc) for "cult classics" like Paragon and Centaur overall. Due to the results of the "pre 80s" pin poll, you'll probably see Paragon sooner than EBD I think. Hopefully EBD eventually makes it though.

It does make things interesting when you look at figures. If I pick 10,000 units as an arbitrary number... beyond 1986, there are 13 pins that meet this criteria. TPA has done 8 of them, with High Speed 2 on the way, F-14 likely soon, and the rest probably unobtainable due to licenses.

In contrast, there are *30* pins made from 1975-1982 that sold more than 10K units. TPA has done only four of them: Xenon, Firepower, Black Knight, and Gorgar. Three of them were probably mainly done because they were in the earlier Hall of Fame games. They don't always get a lot of love in the forums unfortunately, and I get the sense some of the conversions were "rush jobs" (I like Firepower a lot but the TPA conversion is buggy; the same goes for Black Knight).

I do like a bit of variety personally and would like to see some more tables from that era mixed in.

-------------
count me in as 1 of the older generation. EM & late 70s to early 80s.

David Pannozzo · Jul 27, 2015

I'm 46, so I guess I'm a young Em and really don't care about EM's and Early Solid state. But since I was a teenager in the 80's, I was mostly an Arcade Game player and at the time found Pinball Boring. I would have to say I started to kinda get into pinball in 1986 when the System 11 games started coming out, then in 1992 I was 22 I saw The Addam's Family. It was Hook, Line, and Sinker, that's when I really got hooked on Pinball. But I guess I wouldn't mind playing some of those games you guys want, what I'm trying to say is they should make some of those early games so everybody's happy, I can't wait until some of the Stern S.A.M. Games come out, like one of my all time favorite games Family Guy, or Jersey Jacks The Wizard Of Oz.

EccentricFlower · Jul 27, 2015

I'm 47 and I have to admit that a big reason I want more EMs in TPA is that they're NOT the kind of pinball I grew up with, they play differently, and I like that variation on the SS/alpha machines that were the bulk of my experience.

I can't believe they made a Captain Fantastic pinball (that's an Elton John record, kids), much less that it moved 10K units.
[EDIT: Oh, of course, it's because of "Pinball Wizard," which I associate with Tommy, not with that album.]

Wizard! I have played Wizard. Played it quite a bit. [And I didn't realize Bally managed to sell 10K+ each of TWO Tommy-themed games released within a year of each other.]

invitro · Jul 27, 2015

These are licensed (or I believe would need a license now):

EldarOfSuburbia said:
SS:
1977-09 Eight Ball Bally SS 20,230
1978-01 Power Play Bally SS 13,750
1978-05 Sinbad Gottlieb SS 12,950
1978-10 The Six Million Dollar Man Bally SS 10,320
1981-02 Flash Gordon Bally SS 10,000

EM:
1976-12 Grand Prix Williams EM 10,554
1975-05 Wizard! Bally EM 10,005

Kratos3 · Jul 28, 2015

soundwave106 said:
DMD / 90s tables seem to sell the best (I guess), and there's a very vocal group that hates older tables. (Although there's another vocal group that wants more EMs and early SS... go figure.). It's also been a bit strange that there's been a bit more support (as in, people yapping about it in Facebook requests etc) for "cult classics" like Paragon and Centaur overall. Due to the results of the "pre 80s" pin poll, you'll probably see Paragon sooner than EBD I think. Hopefully EBD eventually makes it though.

It does make things interesting when you look at figures. If I pick 10,000 units as an arbitrary number... beyond 1986, there are 13 pins that meet this criteria. TPA has done 8 of them, with High Speed 2 on the way, F-14 likely soon, and the rest probably unobtainable due to licenses.

In contrast, there are *30* pins made from 1975-1982 that sold more than 10K units. TPA has done only four of them: Xenon, Firepower, Black Knight, and Gorgar. Three of them were probably mainly done because they were in the earlier Hall of Fame games. They don't always get a lot of love in the forums unfortunately, and I get the sense some of the conversions were "rush jobs" (I like Firepower a lot but the TPA conversion is buggy; the same goes for Black Knight).

I do like a bit of variety personally and would like to see some more tables from that era mixed in.

The vocal "EM guys" make plenty of noise....

I've always fancied myself a late-80s to early-90s fan, but I LOVE Xenon, Firepower, and Gorgar(BK just isn't my thing). I think I prefer the simple, straightforward designs.

EldarOfSuburbia said:
Here's the 1971-1980 list of tables with 10,000+ units, according to IPDB:

http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?yr=1971-1980&prd=>9999&sortby=name&searchtype=advance

* = Licensed
+ = In TPA

SS:
1977-09 Eight Ball Bally SS 20,230
1979-01 Flash Williams SS 19,505
*1978-12 Playboy Bally SS 18,250
+1980-02 Firepower Williams SS 17,410
*1979-06 Kiss Bally SS 17,000
*1979-04 Star Trek Bally SS 16,842
1978-04 Mata Hari Bally SS 16,260
*1979-09 Harlem Globetrotters On Tour Bally SS 14,550
+1979-12 Gorgar Williams SS 14,000
*1977-06 Evel Knievel Bally SS 14,000
1978-01 Power Play Bally SS 13,750
+1980-11 Black Knight Williams SS 13,075
1978-05 Sinbad Gottlieb SS 12,950
1978-06 Strikes and Spares Bally SS 12,820
*1980-04 Space Invaders Bally SS 11,400
+1980-11 Xenon Bally SS 11,000
1980-02 Silverball Mania Bally SS 10,350
1979-10 Supersonic Bally SS 10,340
1978-08 Lost World Bally SS 10,330
1978-10 The Six Million Dollar Man Bally SS 10,320
1981-02 Flash Gordon Bally SS 10,000

SS Non-Commercial:
1976-10 Fireball Bally SS ~10,000

EM:
*1976-06 Capt. Fantastic and The Brown Dirt Cowboy Bally EM 16,155
1976-01 Space Mission Williams EM 11,652
1976-04 Royal Flush Gottlieb EM 12,250
1976-12 Grand Prix Williams EM 10,554
1975-12 Spirit of 76 Gottlieb EM 10,300
1976-07 Aztec Williams EM 10,150
1975-05 Wizard! Bally EM 10,005

If they made even 3 or 4 of these tables it would make a lot of people very happy.

EldarOfSuburbia · Jul 28, 2015

I can see them going with Flash and Eight Ball (in the form of EBD). The rest... well I'm sure they'd like to get KISS and Playboy and Star Trek done, but I don't see it happening. (btw Bally Star Trek isn't actually that good of a table, at least as far as I'm concerned - give me Atari's Superman table from that era, please.)

invitro · Jul 28, 2015

EldarOfSuburbia said:
Here's the 1971-1980 list of tables with 10,000+ units, according to IPDB:
1978-06 Strikes and Spares Bally SS 12,820

Golly, this one is beautiful...

...doesn't look much fun, though.

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