WMS License - Speculation Thread

GAH1068 · May 24, 2018

shutyertrap said:
To piggyback in the above, even Arcooda was fooled by how far along FarSight was with cabinet view. From what I understand (but can’t recall the source) Arcooda thought all that was going to be needed were a few tweaks and the game would run. Instead it was a major task, which is why it’s taken a year plus to be ready. That being said, what is being offered now is no rush job and FarSight was tasked with certain improvements and form functions they might not ever have otherwise tackled. These things are good for the future of TPA, just sucks it won’t be for WMS tables anymore.

I just hope that cabinet support is something they maintain going foward and we aren't stuck with "76" tables and done. The work has been done, now continue to support and improve it. I don't care if they increase prices for cabinet mode users to pay for the extra development. With all seven seasons purchased and now the 149.00 for the Arcooda Steam license they are going to have to work hard for me to continue to purchase tables packs from them.

chinzman93 · May 24, 2018

WesReviews said:
% of likelihood, IMO...

Scientific Games (squatting/no digital pinball) - 40%
Scientific Games (finding someone to do digital pinball) - 30%
Zen Pinball - 20%
The Stern Conspiracy - 9%
Smaller company obtaining the license - 1%

While Stern HAS to have the WMS library on their radar to some degree, if there were even a slight chance that Stern would be obtaining that library, I don't think there would have been an announcement of "The End" of the Williams/Bally stuff. That catalog would have just changed hands behind the scenes, or maybe Stern would have issued a press release and all the tables would remain available in TPA without interruption. But that's not what happened, so I don't see them buying the library, unfortunately.

That is probably true, a behind the scenes transfer would make more sense. Unless....they will be partnering with a different developer...Zen perhaps?

chinzman93 · May 24, 2018

Crawley said:
This was probably my video from the Chicago Expo years ago. I spoke with Norman a little bit about it at that time and what you see in the video is what he refereed to as a "hack job" - which it really was. Any time you finished a game the menu would display which you couldn't do anything with the menu using the VirtualPin controls. Norman had to go over to a laptop that was connected to the VirtualPin and reset it. So I'm pretty sure the game was just running off of Farsights laptop, rather than the VirtualPin computer, and the video was just being pipped in to the VirtualPin cabinet display and using their flippers as inputs.

It did have a blackglass so not sure how that was done (maybe the VirtualPin computer was displaying that). But Norman did say the whole thing was put together the night before. Basically they just made the TPA camera hold a birds-eye view over the playfield.

So at that point in time it seemed more of a proof-of-concept than actual work being done to have an integrated cabinet feature.

shutyertrap said:
To piggyback in the above, even Arcooda was fooled by how far along FarSight was with cabinet view. From what I understand (but can’t recall the source) Arcooda thought all that was going to be needed were a few tweaks and the game would run. Instead it was a major task, which is why it’s taken a year plus to be ready. That being said, what is being offered now is no rush job and FarSight was tasked with certain improvements and form functions they might not ever have otherwise tackled. These things are good for the future of TPA, just sucks it won’t be for WMS tables anymore.

Well then the assumption that things were farther along in development would seem to be false. However, a GOOD conspiracy theory never lets actual facts get in it's way....

EldarOfSuburbia · May 24, 2018

shutyertrap said:
To piggyback in the above, even Arcooda was fooled by how far along FarSight was with cabinet view. From what I understand (but can’t recall the source) Arcooda thought all that was going to be needed were a few tweaks and the game would run. Instead it was a major task, which is why it’s taken a year plus to be ready. That being said, what is being offered now is no rush job and FarSight was tasked with certain improvements and form functions they might not ever have otherwise tackled. These things are good for the future of TPA, just sucks it won’t be for WMS tables anymore.

What, a software company making an impressive-looking demo that was thrown together overnight and barely holds together just to impress potential buyers? As if anyone would ever stoop to such a thing!

Hold my beer....

Sean DonCarlos · May 24, 2018

EldarOfSuburbia said:
What, a software company making an impressive-looking demo that was thrown together overnight and barely holds together just to impress potential buyers? As if anyone would ever stoop to such a thing!

Hold my beer....

I would laugh, but I've been on the receiving end of this too many times to manage anything more than a knowing sigh.

MattW · May 25, 2018

Plungemaster said:
I can not believe when you rent a license for years, on numerous platforms, and you make a mistake by bringing it on a new platform the holders instantly stop the complete license.

That does not make any sense.

Oh I agree, going nuclear over one mistake doesn't make any sense. That is bad business. It would have to be many missteps and issues over years, including stuff we aren't privy to and/or just being fed up with working with them. The holders are leaving money on the table - a money stream that is already flowing from all the tables already completed - all reward and no risk. Maybe not a huge money train, but it is all gravy. There is no known alternate plan. As owners if they bought it for gambling IP they can create slot themes from the IP *and* take a cut of the table sales from the rented license. The problem is the alternatives to the "fed up" theory make even less sense to me. Maybe things will get clearer in the coming months.

yespage · May 25, 2018

I heard that Steve Mnuchin is interested in making this into a movie. Matt Damon has already been penciled into play the role FlippyFloppy.

EldarOfSuburbia · May 25, 2018

yespage said:
I heard that Steve Mnuchin is interested in making this into a movie. Matt Damon has already been penciled into play the role FlippyFloppy.

...and when the movie comes out, everyone will say "that would have been so much better with Leonardo DiCaprio instead".

WesReviews · May 30, 2018

shutyertrap said:
To piggyback in the above, even Arcooda was fooled by how far along FarSight was with cabinet view. From what I understand (but can’t recall the source) Arcooda thought all that was going to be needed were a few tweaks and the game would run. Instead it was a major task, which is why it’s taken a year plus to be ready. That being said, what is being offered now is no rush job and FarSight was tasked with certain improvements and form functions they might not ever have otherwise tackled. These things are good for the future of TPA, just sucks it won’t be for WMS tables anymore.

Pleasantly surprised to see my post mentioned on your latest podcast. Thanks for the shout-out! If there is one good thing that's come from the WMS situation, I have found a new podcast to listen to.

shutyertrap · May 30, 2018

WesReviews said:
Pleasantly surprised to see my post mentioned on your latest podcast. Thanks for the shout-out! If there is one good thing that's come from the WMS situation, I have found a new podcast to listen to.

If it’s a good post that can spur a conversation for a few minutes, we use it! Happy to have you as a listener.

hlr53 · May 31, 2018

My best guess is gambling pinball and slots first. That is where the most free cash flow is.

chinzman93 · Jun 1, 2018

Just listened to the latest podcast.....I am sticking with the Stern Conspiracy!

Rudy Yagov · Jun 1, 2018

shogun00 said:
Stern buying the WMS pinball catalog wouldn't be too far fetched IMO. There are quite a few titles that they could make sequels to and would be quite profitable. For example, a sequel to Black Knight, High Speed, Attack From Mars, and Medieval Madness.

I'm still holding out for F/A-18 Super Hornet myself.

chinzman93 · Jun 1, 2018

Rudy Yagov said:
I'm still holding out for F/A-18 Super Hornet myself.

You may get it someday....Tom Cruise is doing Top Gun 2....Hollywood has ran out of ideas....so maybe a pinball company will do a sequel to F-14 Tomcat.....starring Tom Cruise and a F/A 18...but no Goose!

yespage · Jun 2, 2018

chinzman93 said:
You may get it someday....Tom Cruise is doing Top Gun 2....Hollywood has ran out of ideas....so maybe a pinball company will do a sequel to F-14 Tomcat.....starring Tom Cruise and a F/A 18...but no Goose!

Dude, spoiler alerts!

chinzman93 · Jun 2, 2018

yespage said:
Dude, spoiler alerts!

Which was the spoiler....that they will use F/A 18's or that Goose is STILL dead?

timxtr · Jun 2, 2018

I'm hoping for Fire!
And more tables!

Kolchak357 · Jun 2, 2018

chinzman93 said:
Which was the spoiler....that they will use F/A 18's or that Goose is STILL dead?

Just don’t mention any oiled up volleyball exploits. Probably Twister or Pickle Ball this time.

WesReviews · Jun 5, 2018

timxtr said:
I'm hoping for Fire!
And more tables!

I really think we could have gotten Fire!, Special Force and RollerGames had we gotten one more season of WMS tables.

shutyertrap · Jun 5, 2018

WesReviews said:
I really think we could have gotten Fire!, Special Force and RollerGames had we gotten one more season of WMS tables.

I pushed for Rollergames every time I talked with anyone at FarSight, going all the way back to Season 2. The reality was they just never could track down the people that held the license. They even toyed with the idea of just doing it and seeing if anyone noticed, but of course there's steep penalties if the people come calling after. The other option was to Fester it, but it'd be a ton of work and would need new audio too for all the call outs. So that's the deal with why it never was gonna happen. The cost would probably have been minimal, but nothing doing if you can't find the people to pay.

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