iOS - Request Better graphics

[pinballrocks]

I'm new to the forum so I'd like to start by saying I enjoy TPA greatly and look forward to meeting like-minded pinheads (the good kind, of course ). I only own Season Pack 1 so far but I'm planning on getting more.

My first post is regarding iOS graphics. I don't own TPA on any other platform but have seen it on PC, PS3 and XBox, and feel that even though the iOS version is fantastic, it's somewhat of a step below the other two. What I mean is that the graphics, crisp and clean as they may be, seem to be a little lacking especially in the lighting department. See these two screenshots for comparison (the first is the PC, the second iPad Air 2):

In the first shot, the graphics seem smoother, and the lighting gives the table a more three-dimensional effect not to mention ambiance.

The iOS graphics in comparison are flat and harsh, and what little lighting is there does almost nothing to enhance the overall feel of the game.

I don't know, just my thoughts. Anyone is welcome to add their own.

Cheers!

P.S. Apologies if I screw up on anything on this first post.

 

[night]

If you do a search on my 2,029 posts, 2,028 are probably about TPA's graphics quality. Anyway, welcome on board!

 

[Kratos3]

IMO, iOS and Android could do with a lighting update. Current devices should be powerful enough to handle it.

Farsight has said they are trying to maintain support and performance for older devices and operating systems.

 

[Extork]

Bingo. And we're not even asking for them to ditch the old gen devices. Just have an option that can be turned on or off. If it ever happens, I could see them charging lotsa $ for the option. But yeah, I agree. And welcome to the forums

Ps- just a bit of advice. If you want to post pictures, they need to be through an image hosting site. I use photobucket. Then just copy and paste the link for forums after uploading it

 

[MadScience2006]

Bingo. And we're not even asking for them to ditch the old gen devices. Just have an option that can be turned on or off.

I remember an alternate rendering option a couple of years ago with older versions of TPA...what the hell was it called now? It basically dumped performance through the floor and made any table virtually unplayable. Unless FS can do something with lighting that will retain playability and framerate, it probably shouldn't be added.

 

[pinballrocks]

Bingo. And we're not even asking for them to ditch the old gen devices. Just have an option that can be turned on or off. If it ever happens, I could see them charging lotsa $ for the option. But yeah, I agree. And welcome to the forums

Ps- just a bit of advice. If you want to post pictures, they need to be through an image hosting site. I use photobucket. Then just copy and paste the link for forums after uploading it

Thanks for the heads up on the pics. I had a sneaking suspicion they weren't going to show up after I hit "Submit", lol.

But I think absolutely iOS devices can handle better graphics. Metal SDK has facilitated incredible looking games, but of course it's up to the developers to take advantage of that. I don't know, maybe for some future update? Please, Farsight?

 

[pinballrocks]

Farsight has said they are trying to maintain support and performance for older devices and operating systems.

Yeah, hard to improve the graphics when you're still trying to support iOS 5, for crying out loud.

 

[Kratos3]

Yeah, hard to improve the graphics when you're still trying to support iOS 5, for crying out loud.

Exactly. I understand not wanting to buy a new iPad, but Farsight will get left in the dust if they hold back the game for a small number users who don't want to upgrade.

Using Metal would require a "from the ground up" build of TPA, from what I understand.

 

[night]

Too many tables, too late. Could see this comming shortly after the fist few table releases, but nobody listened. Fanatic forum members b!tched on the critics who only wanted the best, and now what do we have.. 50+ tables with dated graphics and all of a sudden it's 'hip' to call TPA's graphics lame. Too late. And the fantatics keep quite or have left the building long time ago.

 

[haj]

I don't expect FarSight to make a drastic update to many tables for being realistic, but they could improve some old Season one tables' graphics matched to later tables, AND unreasonable camera positions of some tables.

 

[Heretic]

Too many tables, too late. Could see this comming shortly after the fist few table releases, but nobody listened. Fanatic forum members b!tched on the critics who only wanted the best, and now what do we have.. 50+ tables with dated graphics and all of a sudden it's 'hip' to call TPA's graphics lame. Too late. And the fantatics keep quite or have left the building long time ago.

intresting view point here is mine.

back then we were all very happy to have easy install and use pinball tables. remeber before tpa the onky real option was vp which for many is obtuse and a hassle to use. its easy to say i told you so because whats being asked now is an overal improvment in visual fedlity, but the fanatics gfx wise were freaking out about a missing screw phillps head vs flat or a rubber being the wrong shade of white. because of all that silly nitpicking back in the day i doubt tge art deparment will ever listen to us again heh. while we would all love some touchups and possibly tweaked lighting tpa as a mobile prpduct is whatt it is now.

im not a huge visual guy so aslong as its modtly there im fine with it. its not really true that art issues were even sane back then

 

[night]

intresting view point here is mine.

back then we were all very happy to have easy install and use pinball tables. remeber before tpa the onky real option was vp which for many is obtuse and a hassle to use. its easy to say i told you so because whats being asked now is an overal improvment in visual fedlity, but the fanatics gfx wise were freaking out about a missing screw phillps head vs flat or a rubber being the wrong shade of white. because of all that silly nitpicking back in the day i doubt tge art deparment will ever listen to us again heh. while we would all love some touchups and possibly tweaked lighting tpa as a mobile prpduct is whatt it is now.

im not a huge visual guy so aslong as its modtly there im fine with it. its not really true that art issues were even sane back then

Heretic, I have been advocating for lighting/shadow fx since Twilight Zone. Trying to penetrate Farsight to do something about their flat looking tables and inconsistent graphics quality. I didn't mind be reduculed for that in the past, but it is funny how time seems to open the eyes.

 

[MadScience2006]

It's not that it's too late, it's that Metal wasn't even around, let alone devices that were capable of using it. The use of Metal in iOS has only been around for what, a year or so? And only the newest devices support it:

Apple A8 GPU:
iPad Air 2 Wi-Fi
iPad Air 2 Wi-Fi + Cellular
iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus

Apple A7 GPU:
iPad Mini 3 Wi-Fi
iPad Mini 3 Wi-Fi + Cellular
iPhone 5s
iPad Air Wi-Fi
iPad Air Wi-Fi + Cellular
iPad Mini with Retina display Wi-Fi
iPad Mini with Retina display Wi-Fi + Cellular

*If* Metal was around early in TPA's life and devices supported it, maybe it would have been used. If implemented now, recoding would likely be from the ground up and ONLY the devices mentioned above would be capable, alienating many users with older devices. I really doubt FS is going to do this as they can't even implement fixes for long-standing, table-specific bugs.

 

[Kratos3]

intresting view point here is mine.

back then we were all very happy to have easy install and use pinball tables. remeber before tpa the onky real option was vp which for many is obtuse and a hassle to use. its easy to say i told you so because whats being asked now is an overal improvment in visual fedlity, but the fanatics gfx wise were freaking out about a missing screw phillps head vs flat or a rubber being the wrong shade of white. because of all that silly nitpicking back in the day i doubt tge art deparment will ever listen to us again heh. while we would all love some touchups and possibly tweaked lighting tpa as a mobile prpduct is whatt it is now.

im not a huge visual guy so aslong as its modtly there im fine with it. its not really true that art issues were even sane back then

This.

I'll admit that I was in the happy to be able to play camp. We are just reaching the point now where those same excuses/reasons aren't going to work.

 

[pinballrocks]

I understand the reluctance to alienate a large user base of older iOS devices. Limiting support to just two generations of iOS would probably mitigate any losses somewhat, but even then Metal was only released with iOS8 last September, so any support would probably come one maybe two years from now at the earliest. I don't know, hard to know how they coded TPA and even harder to imagine what goes on in Farsight's decision-making process . From a Quora friend, Glyn Williams, well versed in iOS development:

I have been playing with Metal.
It's a very straightforward and simple API.
But depending on how your app is coded, it could be a lot of work to switch.

The shader language is different. So every vertex and fragment shader needs rewriting.

The performance gain might not materialise, if you app does everything in two or four draw calls, the. You might see no advantage. But if you have hundreds, then Metal will be very beneficial.

 

[Heretic]

is it just me or is the clean look on mobile tables preferable(outside of dx11 or next gen) to the pink post processing nonsense on kast gen or dx9?

 

[Lord Boron]

is it just me or is the clean look on mobile tables preferable(outside of dx11 or next gen) to the pink post processing nonsense on kast gen or dx9?

I'm with you! I prefer the brighter colors on iOS to the muddy look of the consol versions. The table "pop" more,

 

[night]

Yes, I agree. And concerning graphics, it's not that TPA is ugly, Fish Tales for example is a very nice looking table. But a lot of tables need a little push and pull, it don't have to be Zaccaria with all the bells and whistels. Depth is the key that adds realism, it is too 3D without enviromental lighting now that makes it look dated. I believe that if every table had the same graphics quality like Fish Tales or the good old Tales from the Arabian Night then there is no problem.

 

[IGoFirstIndy]

For me everything just looks flat. I have a hard time going back to TPA after playing Zacc or Zen. it feels like a model kit that has been put together, but hasn't been painted or didn't get a base coat first. Maybe it's better on a smaller iPhone but that's how it feels to me on iPad Air.

 

[dtown8532]

I thought the recent JackBot looked really flat with the lighting effects and just the way the ball interacted in general. Just take a look at the original Pinbot. Big difference.