Just cannot get over the lack of high resolution textures. Comparison shoots inside!!

[unclewilly]

Thanks for that. It took me a good 6 months to code the Rom for bad cats and i knew it would play like shut due to fp physics, but i did it just for the sake of trying to code a Rom as best as i could do it.

It really floors me when a guy who has probably never coded anything comments about poorly coded games.

Like i always say if you think you can do a better job, give it a shot.

That's why i started making tables in the first place

 

[jrolson]

It really floors me when a guy who has probably never coded anything comments about poorly coded games.

Like i always say if you think you can do a better job, give it a shot.

Actually im a web designer, so I code web pages almost every day...

And yes I have made & coded Future Pinball tables also so dont say i dont know anything if you dont know me...

And I wasn't taking about your table specifically... only a small percentage of the tables out there are poorly coded... so calm down

 

[Brandon Debes]

I code web pages

Laffo. Fourteen year old bull****ter detected.

 

[jrolson]

Laffo. Fourteen year old bull****ter detected.

More like 28....

 

[Jeff Strong]

Guys, let's try to keep this on topic....

 

[lettuce]

Guys, let's try to keep this on topic....

Jeff that stop happen back at the start of page 2 of this thread...hence why i havent replied since lol.

Thanks for dropping by UW...i knew it was like a red rag to a bull starting this thread but i wanted to express my opinions on The Pinball Arcade. If truth be told i had your tables in mind when i was comparing VP high standards to TPA. Hopfully TPA will improve and improve and the bar will be raised with every release....very much like with every release of a VP & FP table. Hope things are going ok with work n baby

 

[ND3G]

The legality issue you talk about is a joke as well as its a hobby and if the pinball companies wanted to shut down the sites where the tables are available they easily could. If you believe that would stop people from creating tables that they want to play you are dead wrong.

Maybe I was not clear in the point I was trying to make. emb531 made a post in support of FP and in closing stated that it was "free", and I assume he intended that to serve as an example of an advantage FP has over TPA. That statement makes me rather uncomfortable. Personally I love seeing the work that you, JPSalas, GRIZZ, etc are doing but obviously you guys are not obtaining permission to recreate these tables or paying any royalty/licensing fees and as such they are illegal reproductions. Whether or not the license holders care or not is a different story all together.

I fully support VP and FP but I think it is in poor taste to try to sway people away from a licensed commercial product in favour of an unlicensed hobbyist project. No one is going to lose their job if a lot of people fail to download your Big Bang Bar table (great work by the way) but the same is not true at Farsight. Also, if Farsight wants to recreate the Creature From the Black Lagoon table they have to shell out (potentially) large sums of money while you only had to decide that you wanted to make it.

 

[Richard B]

Farsight has already said that, even though the PS3 and Xbox 360 are powerful, there are still limits as to what can be done on them. You'd think a machine that can handle GOW 3 could handle a pinball sim without any trouble, but you'd be wrong. Bumping up the resolution too high will cause the frame rate to become unstable.

 

[thetrout]

The playfield textures on the PS3 are actually VERY nice. Just watch them as the camera pans over the table pre-game. What makes them look pixelated during gameplay is the PS3's crappy anisotropic filtering on slopes.

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

Farsight has already said that, even though the PS3 and Xbox 360 are powerful, there are still limits as to what can be done on them. You'd think a machine that can handle GOW 3 could handle a pinball sim without any trouble, but you'd be wrong. Bumping up the resolution too high will cause the frame rate to become unstable.

Very correct.

Another thing to consider is the environments in games like GOW, the objects are usually farther off, so lower resolution textures are used. Play just about any FPS and walk right up against a wall and look how blocky it becomes. In a Pinball game you are looking at a table at a pretty short distance and viewing the entire thing. There isn't much culling that can be done. Since everything is so close, it requires higher res textures, but there is a balance between that and performance.

 

[Butterkins]

Mike, could you elaborate on the decision to go with 1080p for the console versions?

Given the issues with low-poly counts and lower res textures for performance, was there a compelling reason to go with 1080p over 720p?

(Not trying to start a war here, but Zen appears to use 720p, and manages a higher poly count, with high resolution textures. Their image quality is very high, while maintaining 60fps. Just wondering why FS went with a higher resolution.)

Cheers.

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

The decision for 1080 was made by managment.

 

[Butterkins]

Thanks for the response Mike.

While I've got you here -- and forgive me if this has already been covered -- but will you guys be updating the DMD graphics at all to include the DMD dot-matrix grid itself, as well as the plasma glow?

(The current DMD implementation looks rather flat, and well, un-DMD like.)

Cheers.

 

[IdontHave50cents]

Very correct.

Another thing to consider is the environments in games like GOW, the objects are usually farther off, so lower resolution textures are used. Play just about any FPS and walk right up against a wall and look how blocky it becomes. In a Pinball game you are looking at a table at a pretty short distance and viewing the entire thing. There isn't much culling that can be done. Since everything is so close, it requires higher res textures, but there is a balance between that and performance.

Ooooo The Pinball Arcade 2 on the Xbox 720 is gonna be soooo awesome then! Right right?

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

Thanks for the response Mike.

While I've got you here -- and forgive me if this has already been covered -- but will you guys be updating the DMD graphics at all to include the DMD dot-matrix grid itself, as well as the plasma glow?

(The current DMD implementation looks rather flat, and well, un-DMD like.)

Cheers.

Welcome.

I've been looking into some ways to improve the dmd. The problem we have right now is the dots are 2x2 pixels, which it's impossible to make a 2x2 of pixels look round. It's on my todo list of improvments.

Ooooo The Pinball Arcade 2 on the Xbox 720 is gonna be soooo awesome then! Right right?

I personally can't wait till the new hardware comes out. The current consoles are really looking dated when compared to the same PC titles.

 

[bossyman15]

Yeah cos the PF for TOTAN that TPA are using is really as high resolution as this one isnt it......

http://www.arcadecrusade.com/gallery/d/30278-1/Totan-JR.png

I think not. There is NO WAY the texture resolution that TPA is using is 1080p!!!. its not really retarted Craig if using a pincab at 1080p resolution and a 360 set to 1080p aswell and still the VP and FP recreations look a hell of alot sharper, you can actually read the table decals on VP and FP versions. not sure what your using to play on yourcab if you think TPA looks better, more realistic maybe yes ill agree with that but the resolution is no comparison!

Im not bagging TPA im just a bit underwhelmed at the whole sharpness of the tables

are there more pictures of other tables on that site? I like the TOTAN table picture you posted.

 

[Flugan]

I want to add my Xbox 360 screenshot to the discussion because as far as I can tell the images posted so far is comparing apples to oranges and is not from a console version of TPA.

Look in my thread http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/336-Resolution-and-quot-screenshots-quot
and tell me which part of the TOTAN playfield is low res.

During the tutorials it focuses on single elements and shows good detail even on short distances.

 

[superballs]

Just so there is no guessing, i'm going to lay my point of view out now:

I don't like FP
I love VP
I love TPA

FP looks wonderful but to me it feels like playing on the moon

With that out of the way...

When i play VP in a 4:3 configuration (1280x800), anything much higher up from the slings starts looking garbled. When i play the same table converted to full screen on my 1680x1050 monitor, it's crystal clear (if i play 4:3 on that same monitor, it's garbled nearly as bad as on my laptop). No filtering needs to be done because the vantage point is nearly straight down, give or take any layback settings which are pretty negligable on the PF anyway. When TPA is in flyby mode everything looks great. I run on a 720p (768 really) plasma screen and really, when i'm playing this game, it looks great. It plays great and i never have to guess where i need to shoot because i look for the flashing lamp/arrow/dmd-prompt-telling-me-what-ramp-or-loop-or-orbit-to-shoot-through/voice-prompt.

I would love to actually see this game at 1080p

 

[szycag]

I have my 360 connected to a 1080p monitor through HDMI and I really can't complain. After playing FP in 1080p I had certain expectations for this and honestly I couldn't ask for more. The interface graphics on the other hand, feel stuck in the PS1 era. I wish navigating the table choices and menus was more stylish. Anyways this makes me want to try the game on my 720p HDTV to see if it's a monitor/TV thing with the people complaining.

 

[DopedToInfinity]

Carnivale

The decision for 1080 was made by managment.

I love the "managenent" quotes, reminds me of Carnivale

Does "Management" live in the back of a trailer located in the dustbowl???