No Good Gofers - Blue Transparent Ramps on iOS should be possible?

[MadScience2006]

I doubt this. With a static look this can be, but TPA is dynamic, so an image map that 'loos like' transparency isn't going to work when the camera changes angle.

Agreed. The table fly-over during attract mode clearly shows that these ramps (TOTAN) are truly transparent. I also play with an unlocked camera so I can verify it in that way as well.

 

[Carl Spiby]

I don't think people appreciate how much CPU power emulation requires.

 

[Mark W**a]

Um, I can see through the ramps on Gofers on the PS3. If you are referring to them being blue instead of clear, I can also confirm that I saw with my own eyes the Gofers table FS has, and it indeed has blue ramps.

Bobby had also told me with Dr Dude that the shear number of polygons involved with that upper area of the table was giving them fits with the mobile, thus why it looks the way it does.

You are correct. They are transparent on ps3, I didn't recall correctly.

Dr. Dude looks fanstastic on mobile. I'm shocked at the high amounts of geometry and yes also a transparent ramp. If I had to guess how this was achieved, it's that the table is slightly lower resolution than others in the arcade (on mobile). Not 100% but it makes sense since it has more "jaggies" to my eyes at least. I'd say the trade is well worth it though and it looks great.

I don't think people appreciate how much CPU power emulation requires.

I'm not trying to come off rude or disrespectful, but my honest opinion is that it actually isn't as much a burden as Farsight makes it out to be.

I mean lets face it, these are low resolution dot matrix displays from the early-mid 90s. Granted its also running all the switches and whatnot... Think back to what was state of the art arcade graphics back then... Not counting Segas powerhouse model boards, thinking 2D graphics.. Capcom CPS2? Bally/Midways own Texas Instruments hardware (the board than ran the Mortal Kombats, etc.). Those could be emulated by a mobile phone in its sleep, and I'd argue the pinball boards were less powerful (tbh, QUITE A BIT less powerful).

Just saying. I'm not a tech guy, I would love an explanation why I'm wrong. The newer Sterns I can actually understand, because they do full motion video playback and, by virtue of just being from the last decade are relatively modern, sophisticated despite still being based on ancient, 20 year old dmd technology.

I'm not doubting Farsight here. Emulation is CPU intensive, as its all CPU all hardware and I fully understand why a system like Nintendo 3DS would have trouble there.

Carl ill give you this though: a dmd from 1997 is more sophisticated than a dmd from 1993. You DO have a point. Is that enough to prevent transparent ramps in Gophers... I'm not quite ready to accept that... Seems a stretch to me... But point taken.

-edit- Arabian Nights is from 1996, Gofers 1997 so chances are its the same or extremely similar PCBs. Making it even less likely to affect performance.

 

[Mark W**a]

Hmm...I was just thinking they'd need static textures for the 4 fixed camera angles, but I forgot the camera can be unlocked and moving about even within a single angle setting.

Sean I want to add that I just was messing around with it, and not only yes, I also want to note that when the tubes "twist" in the upper right corner they actually overlap each other. So a transparency on top of a transparency (that's what you meant by overlap, correct?).

Really has me scratching my head.

Also real gophers ramps are a smoked, off blue almost purple iirc. The baby blue they went with isn't even close. Closest example on pin arcade is Bride... Which again, is transparent on mobile.

My honest opinion is that it was an art department screw up... They outsourced the table, got it back with baby blue ramps and just shipped it. Deadlines et al. The "hardware issues" are just a usual Farsight cover story lol, just my opinion of course...

 

[night]

Dr. Dude looks fanstastic on mobile. I'm shocked at the high amounts of geometry and yes also a transparent ramp. If I had to guess how this was achieved, it's that the table is slightly lower resolution than others in the arcade (on mobile).

I suspect there is 1 graphics team that can't create decent transparent textures, this explains the inconsistency. It is a fact that the tables are made by different art teams as the graphics do have a different style. You can also see this in the table art for example: some are with shadows and lighting effects like Taxi, FunHouse, Firepower. These effects are part of the image maps. Now look at Cactus Canyon, completely different style of graphics. The 'CC' team is the worst that could happen to TPA graphics quality.

 

[robx46]

I suspect there is 1 graphics team that can't create decent transparent textures, this explains the inconsistency. It is a fact that the tables are made by different art teams as the graphics do have a different style. You can also see this in the table art for example: some are with shadows and lighting effects like Taxi, FunHouse, Firepower. These effects are part of the image maps. Now look at Cactus Canyon, completely different style of graphics. The 'CC' team is the worst that could happen to TPA graphics quality.

I've also suspected this. Or for some reason some tables just get more TLC than others.
However, somebody did make a good point earlier about there already being 1 large transparent plastic on this table & the ball needs to show through every bit of it. I still think my ipad3 could handle transparent ramps everywhere, but maybe not an older apple or android device? IDK. But I agree that maybe they shouldn't punish people with capable devices by creating tables for the lowest common denominator. Some setting to enable higher quality would be great.

As for teams, it seems that tables with the worst graphics have some of the best physics, & best graphics have the worst physics! Why can't we get the best of both worlds! I think CC is overall the most well done table, though it could use some basic lighting effects & some minor touch ups visually.

 

[night]

As for teams, it seems that tables with the worst graphics have some of the best physics, & best graphics have the worst physics! Why can't we get the best of both worlds! I think CC is overall the most well done table, though it could use some basic lighting effects & some minor touch ups visually.

The newer tables have better physics, hopefully they will update the older ones as well soon.

The issue with the graphics is that the older graphics where made especially for the mobiles. But they now look like quick jobs, they are stripped console versions, they tear the graphics apart, throw-out textures and lighting and polygons to see what still works on the mobiles, and that's what you're going to get. Soulless stuff, graphics without love and dedication. TZ is one of the greatest examples of such behaviour. (Think about it, this is a $50.000 table). Take 2 screenshots, one of FunHouse and one of TZ and put it side by side or compare CC with TOTAN or TOM, the quality is miles apart. The graphics need to be made for the mobiles exclusively, but now they are made one time, and this is the basis for everything else. These tables undergo reverse engineering and no good can come from that. That's why CC looks like drama. And who can't see that does not understand graphics, no offense because graphics is a serious business.

 

[canuck]

To be fair, TZ looks pretty damn good on retina ipad. However, I find CC almost has an incomplete look, due to the graphic inconsistencies. Maybe someone at FS is taking notes on all this and will fix them with a big patch one day.

 

[Mark W**a]

No offense but. Huh? Dr. Dude is probably the best looking table on Mobile yet. I haven't played enough Canyon to say one way or the other, but it looks fine to me from my few playthroughs...

All I notice when I put in old tables is how bad the ball and flipper physics are now. Bought some old tables I meant to get for a long time, and they're basically unplayably slow (Theatre of Magic in particular). Graphically not much has changed. iOS has a clean, 60FPS, bright color, minimal lighting, low poly counts. It's been this way since, forever. You're acting like the old tables are some kind of amazing works of art, um, go throw in Bride of Pinbot and tell me that looks better than Dr. Dude. If anything textures have gotten better. Poly counts have most certainly gotten better..

If you must have the best graphics, then get a console or PC. Even if they took full advantage of say, iPhone 5 (which won't happen) it still isn't going to look as good as those versions. FWIW I think the tables look great on iOS. Be thankful you're not on android where they have sub 60fps.