Too easy tables (PC version)

[Shaneus]

Yeah, some of them are definitely too easy. Best you can do for now is get Pro Mode (where available) and disable extra balls, turn down ball savers, etc.

An official harder difficulty setting is supposed to be coming eventually (with leaderboards).

Also timed tournaments are already out on mobile, where you only have 20 minutes to score, so that'll help with some of the marathon tables.

Problem I find is not necessarily with a difficulty that could be adjusted, it's that most ramps tend to respond like they have entrance points wider than they're displayed. They also tend to act like vacuums, especially the left orbit on CftBL... you hit it half-way, and it's like it's sucked up the rest of the way.

It sucks, but a podcaster said it right when I heard them a few weeks ago... there's too much leniency in shot accuracy for things like ramps. Needs to be more punishing or at least accurate (in that regard, maybe it COULD be a difficulty setting... have "true" shots configured in the game, ramps require far more accuracy to hit).

 

[Joe Bolo]

Agree with Shaneus

Problem I find is not necessarily with a difficulty that could be adjusted, it's that most ramps tend to respond like they have entrance points wider than they're displayed. They also tend to act like vacuums, especially the left orbit on CftBL... you hit it half-way, and it's like it's sucked up the rest of the way.

It sucks, but a podcaster said it right when I heard them a few weeks ago... there's too much leniency in shot accuracy for things like ramps. Needs to be more punishing or at least accurate (in that regard, maybe it COULD be a difficulty setting... have "true" shots configured in the game, ramps require far more accuracy to hit).

I also think that a difficulty setting would not necessarily fix the issues with the tables being "too easy" which many of them are. I am an OK pinball player but I'm on some of these tables, such as MM, for 10 minutes at a clip whereas in real life it could take me 25 games to get to that length of time; total dissimilarity. I, like Shaneus, feel that a lot of the ramps are just way too easy to hit and sometimes I can bang out left ramp, then right, then left time and again. IRL this is pretty rare for me. I play at Asbury Park's Pinball Museum where all the DMD machines are set to 5 balls and I occasionally have balls that practically insta-drain and games with pitiful scores, which has happened maybe once in many many games here on PC Pinball Arcade. I hope they can either create a more realistic feel for these tables or make an alternate set mode where the tables play more accurately, with tougher ramps and maybe increased slope, and provide leaderboards for people who prefer a more pure simulation.

All that said, however, the tables look amazing IMO.

Also, Shaneus, if you could tell me what podcast you listened to that talked about Pinball Arcade...I'd love to check that out!

 

[xNiCeGuYx]

I requested a tournament mode around 18 months ago and nothing happened. Why is it so hard for FS to give us a mode without extra balls etc.?

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

I once suggested a way that I thought would allow FarSight to create a harder difficulty mode easily without requiring much additional time on their part (see original thread and a somewhat heated discussion here). I've since found out that FarSight doesn't build the collision meshes for the tables quite that way, and so my proposed solution would not have worked. But it might be interesting reading for newer members who weren't here at the time.

 

[DrainoBraino]

Another thing....nudge is too powerful and tilt isn't sensitive enough. To steer the ball that much in real life would cause a tilt much quicker.

 

[kristian]

I was involved with over 50 Visual Pinball table recreations and I guarantee that things like increased slope and flipper length alone play a huge role. It requires a lot of testing and playing to make a difficulty level that's challenging without being frustrating and unfair. But it's definitely possible with TPA... like I said, the tables play really well fundamentally. It's all about small tweaks now.

And I totally agree about the ramps "sucking" the balls in... ramp shots are way too easy on many tables... CFTBL especially. That doesn't seem to be the case with T2, for example. It's pretty tough table in every way... and really well thought difficulty level.

Some tables also have too powerful flippers which literally catapult the ball to the ramps. Especially some older tables like Black Knight... which is (imho) the worst recreation of them all. The bonus multiplier "horseshoe" is also ridiculously too wide and easy.

I'm not sure if a separate difficulty level is necessary. Just simply make the tables harder with increased slope and some small tweaks with outlanes, etc... that keeps the interest much longer. After doubling the Grand Champion score on your first attempt is really demotivating.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

I'm not sure if a separate difficulty level is necessary. Just simply make the tables harder with increased slope and some small tweaks with outlanes, etc... that keeps the interest much longer. After doubling the Grand Champion score on your first attempt is really demotivating.

There would be mass kvetching if the current tables were simply replaced with harder versions. The average forum-goer here already does better than about 90% of the total playerbase. What is child's play to us is a worthy challenge for the many casual players who (whether we like it or not) are the ones bringing home the bacon for FarSight.

Case in point: When Cirqus Voltaire was first released on TPA, it had really friendly outlanes - to the point where they may have well have been closed. FarSight made them quite a bit more voracious in a following update, and there was a firestorm of criticism from players who thought the new outlanes were unfair and who could no longer get the high scores they had achieved with the easy outlanes. (In their defense, diagonal touch nudging on mobile devices did not exist at that time, and so players could not execute the proper nudge to escape the outlane areas.)

TL;DR: Difficulty options are good.

 

[kristian]

Really?

I joined the circus on my fourth game today. ie. completed the game. Cirqus Voltaire is still easy. But to be fair, the real machine is almost as easy to complete. It's not a difficult table by any means.

But tables like Black Hole, Gofers and Medieval Madness on TPA are simply wrong. I don't think it's a good excuse that the masses are awful players. I thought the main point was to "simulate" the real machines, not make recreations for children... or people who suffer from motoric disorders.

 

[JPelter]

Really?

I joined the circus on my fourth game today. ie. completed the game. Cirqus Voltaire is still easy. But to be fair, the real machine is almost as easy to complete. It's not a difficult table by any means.

But tables like Black Hole, Gofers and Medieval Madness on TPA are simply wrong. I don't think it's a good excuse that the masses are awful players. I thought the main point was to "simulate" the real machines, not make recreations for children... or people who suffer from motoric disorders.

Farsight has stated several times over the past few years that the tables are adjusted to be easier than the real world counterparts intentionally. I'm guessing it's to prevent first time players from getting immediately frustrated and generate good word of mouth for the masses. I can't really fault them for doing it since they do need to sell copies to keep going. If they manage to make tournament setting leaderboards later like Bobby King alluded to in the postcast it'll all be fine anyway. I doubt the difficulty will ever be directly comparable to real machines, but at least it'll remove the ridiculously long grinds.

 

[kristian]

Ok fair enough. I understand that approach.

Personally, I'm an "arcade player" through and through. I just compete against myself and play for fun... I'm not interested in online tournaments, wizard modes and all that... I'd like to set up the difficulty myself. Just simple dip switch, slope & flipper length settings would probably suffice. I believe that kind of features would be extremely easy to add to the program.

And as I said... I'm positively surprised how good TPA is... the physics and playability... graphics, etc. It's not that I'm complaining... just giving feedback.

 

[Inacito]

I have something to say here. When I was a kid I spent too many coins on real machines, I wasn't a good player.
If you want a difficulty setting, let FS keep an easy and even a VERY EASY option.
I bought T2 Pro and feel these are the worst spent 10€ in my life, I cannot play more tan three minutes, the damn ball keeps going to the hole always.
I do not want real arcade conversions, I want to have fun an enjoy my time and my money.

 

[Roo]

Is it true that the Replay scores are set to give you an extra ball instead of a free game (I swear I saw this setting changed from the factory default in one of the operators menus in the Beta a while back)? If so, that would contribute to it being too easy and it seems really unbalanced as well. Replay scores typically change over time depending on how many free games have been earned, correct? Doesn't that essentially mean that the score needed to get an extra ball will be different game-to-game or player-to-player? That wouldn't seem fair.

I understand that a free game wouldn't mean anything in TPA (aside from hearing the satisfying knocker sound), but it doesn't make sense to convert them to extra balls and completely skew the difficulty balance.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Is it true that the Replay scores are set to give you an extra ball instead of a free game (I swear I saw this setting changed from the factory default in one of the operators menus in the Beta a while back)? If so, that would contribute to it being too easy and it seems really unbalanced as well. Replay scores typically change over time depending on how many free games have been earned, correct? Doesn't that essentially mean that the score needed to get an extra ball will be different game-to-game or player-to-player? That wouldn't seem fair.

I understand that a free game wouldn't mean anything in TPA (aside from hearing the satisfying knocker sound), but it doesn't make sense to convert them to extra balls and completely skew the difficulty balance.

Most of the tables up until Table Pack #14 will give an extra ball for the replay score and for specials. After that, some do and others do not. Also, many tables after Pack #14 also have their specials set to award points or nothing at all.

The replay scores on the normal mode tables do not reflex (move up and down); they are fixed. If you are playing a table in Pro mode and change the settings, you can enable reflexing and it will slowly adjust according to your play, but only for Pro mode games.

 

[Roo]

Most of the tables up until Table Pack #14 will give an extra ball for the replay score and for specials. After that, some do and others do not. Also, many tables after Pack #14 also have their specials set to award points or nothing at all.

The replay scores on the normal mode tables do not reflex (move up and down); they are fixed. If you are playing a table in Pro mode and change the settings, you can enable reflexing and it will slowly adjust according to your play, but only for Pro mode games.

Good info, thanks. At least it stays consistent; that's good. But it still feels like too many extra balls in those cases. I'm not used to, for example, getting an extra ball after the end-of-ball bonus is added (because it was just enough to top the replay score).

 

[SilverBalls]

Great game but let down by howveasy it is. Just the ability to adjust the slope and reduce the strength of the flippers would make the world of difference, and would give the feel of the real deal.

Have FS ever commented if this would be an easy addition, does anyone know? I mean does merely adjusting the slope require the remaining physics to be adjusted as well. Hopefully not.

 

[BonzoGonzo]

just turning the number of extra balls to zero and changing the replay awards to a credit instead of an extra ball makes a huge difference... on my first try on arabian nights on pc i did 160+ millions, but when i changed the settings in the pro menu as described, it became more of a challenge and way more fun

but yeah in the future hopefully there will be some slope changing options and stuff

 

[Jeff Strong]

just turning the number of extra balls to zero and changing the replay awards to a credit instead of an extra ball makes a huge difference... on my first try on arabian nights on pc i did 160+ millions, but when i changed the settings in the pro menu as described, it became more of a challenge and way more fun

but yeah in the future hopefully there will be some slope changing options and stuff

+1

 

[Dan]

Farsight has stated several times over the past few years that the tables are adjusted to be easier than the real world counterparts intentionally. I'm guessing it's to prevent first time players from getting immediately frustrated and generate good word of mouth for the masses. I can't really fault them for doing it since they do need to sell copies to keep going. If they manage to make tournament setting leaderboards later like Bobby King alluded to in the postcast it'll all be fine anyway. I doubt the difficulty will ever be directly comparable to real machines, but at least it'll remove the ridiculously long grinds.

I'm not buying anything for PC until FS gives us a HARD difficulty setting. No tables in PA make my heart beat faster and the adrenaline flow, but real pins sure can. That's a good rule of thumb, I think and I'll be buying both packs when they up the difficulty.
Hope Mike / Bobby are reading this.

 

[Tabe]

+1
But in my opinion TZ is the easiest one. The left ramp, right ramp, piano combo is so easy that it`s not possible to end a game without having reached litz for a couple of times. Same goes for FH, SS, BH etc.

I find TZ to be very challenging. I have yet to find a good camera angle that allows me to see what's going on and so all of the shots you mention are basically me firing blind. Add that to the fact that it's an ugly table (on PS3) and a design I simply don't like and I end up not playing it very much.

I agree that SS and FH are very easy. If I was any good at FH's multiball, I'd be posting ridiculous scores. As it is now, I don't even bother playing unless I've got at least an hour set aside. So I end up rarely playing it - odd, considering it's my favorite table of all-time.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Yeah, it's really too bad about Funhouse. It's simply a test of endurance in TPA, unfortunately. The thrill is gone.