Dissapointed in the graphics (XBOX360)

The XBOX360 release still lacks true light sourcing. Instead we're treated with the same crude fake lights that were found in the years old PWHOF. Other lighting effects like the reflective glass covering the table (featured in PWHOF) have been removed for some inexplicable reason. The only visual improvement is in the ball which looks a lot better than PWHOF's 2D sprite. Overall, very disappointing. I really wanted true light sourcing as that's a big part of the real life pinball experience.

Non graphics-related issues;

1. Randomly the game will start "tilting" without my finger touching the tilt controls. Mostly happens on "Black Hole". It's as if some ghost is trying to mess with my game. Rare but annoying.
2. Lack of table options. The real pinball machines had special options that could make the game harder or easier. They should have been included to complete the package.
3. No online multiplayer. It'd be nice to have multiplayer similar to that of Pinball FX, where you can set score thresholds and time limits. A time attack single player mode would be nice too.

(I signed up here because it's clear that FarSight are not listening/responding to people on FaceBook. I'm not sure they're listening here either, but I can try...)

I'm very disappointed in the graphics for the 360 version.

Without getting in to a fanboy argument re Zen, I think Zen have done the better job WRT rendering technology, lighting, artwork and attention to detail. You may not agree with their aesthetic or game decisions (and I have my share of grievances) but you have to credit Zen with caring about what they make. Above all else, they polish their games.

In comparison, TPA 360 looks pretty shoddy, with little polish. If it weren't for these great licenses, it would be very unlikely I'd play pinball on this engine.

The lighting is flat-out awful. The white levels are blown out, and the contrast is far too high, making it very hard to read things on the tables.

The texture quality is very poor. The apron graphics on TOTAN are a mess, and not aligned with the geometry. The Williams logo on the back glass is low resolution and very pixelated. Even the cabinet art and environmental graphics are low resolution. Why????

The table itself has low-resolution geometry. Habitrails are jagged instead of curved, due to a lack of polygons. Plastic pieces are also straight-edged instead of curved.

The balls have a faked environment map stuck on them which does not rotate when the camera is moved.

The DMD does not look like a DMD. It's just the same flat graphic panel from PHOF.

Supposedly, this game runs at 1080p at 60 fps with X2AA. IMO, it would be better to run at 720p, with more geometry, better lighting and textures.

FarSight need to hire a proper design team, instead of relying on what appears to be programmer-artist-designers. They need someone to bring the whole package together, to make it look seamless and professional.

Overall, this game feels very rushed, with spotty quality control and poor attention to detail.

FarSight, you have exclusive rights to famous, much-sought-after licenses. You need to do better with them. This product feels like PHOF 1.5.

(I'm playing the game on a calibrated 50" Viera.)

This is one of the many reasons that I'm glad that I don't have perfect vision. Sure I can't see a lot of the features on the tables but... well, I never could so it doesn't bug me. I'm not saying they shouldn't fix it. I'm just saying I can't see it *grin*

I'm thankful it plays great but it does look awful. It looks like someone put too bright of LEDs in their pinball machine. Some of the lightshow in ToM is so bright I can't see whats going on with the ball clearly.

Here's to hoping they fix it!

From what I understand from the people who saw the 360 demo of Medieval Madness and Bride of Pinbot at the Texas Pinball Festival, those tables had the advanced lighting. Therefore, the console's capable of it and FarSight's capable of it. So I say we give FarSight a chance to produce an update for the launch tables with the new lighting (and the hi-res textures and whatever else needs fixing) before we throw them under the bus any more than those trolls on their Facebook wall already have.

Besides, FarSight's going to want the four launch tables to look their best, if for no other reason so that new customers aren't turned off by the graphics and don't buy DLC tables. FarSight's pricing model depends pretty heavily on players sticking around for the DLC, so they have an incentive to get this right, even if the first effort was a bit of a dud visually.

If the update's not forthcoming after a reasonable period of time, or if MM and BoP release on the 360 and they don't have the new lighting either for some inexplicable reason, then we can crucify them.

I'm simply surprised at what it looks like after playing PHOF & iPhone4s releases. Not knockin' 'em as such due to the improved physics. As stated I'll hang on too see if they can sort something.

I'm really not getting the gripes with the graphics at all. Yes I realise that it doesn't look like zen, but it plays so much better its untrue. I eagerly await future dlc and patches to improve things. They're working on the lighting now as people have said that the ps3 version looks miles better.

Yeah the graphics look pretty good to me. Some of the lighting just looks a little washed out and a few of the textures could be improved, but overall it looks nice.

Gameplay is very good, which is most important anyway, IMO.

It sounds as though Farsight will be putting out improved graphics (specifically the lighting aspects) and such for the X360 release from what they've stated on their Facebook page.

I've been playing on a brand new, just broken in, calibrated 55" Panasonic plasma, and I think it looks outstanding. Sure the interface isn't elegant, and there are a few bugs, but overall I think PA is pretty outstanding. And if the PS3 version has better graphics than the xbox360 version, so what, it doesn't take away from my joy of playing these games! All of these negative comments are just being nit picky. Zen pinball may look slicker, but the proof is in the playability, PA plays better than any sim out there. It just feels right. Again, just my opinion. With that said, just give them some time to get all of these bugs fixed and build up a large DLC library, then all pinball fans should all be happy.

Butterkins said:

(I signed up here because it's clear that FarSight are not listening/responding to people on FaceBook. I'm not sure they're listening here either, but I can try...)

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A few Farsight employees have signed up here, and they reply whenever they can.

We do read every comment on facebook and as much as we can here. We can't always respond because most of our time is spent working on fixing issues with our current tables, implementing our next tables, and adding new features. I try to respond to a few comments on here every day, unfortunatly I don't always have enough time to do so. Also understand that my answers are limited to what managment has announced, and I can't comment on features we plan to implement or not.

@Ammonitida - I'm curious about the tilt issues you are seeing. Does the table seem to be nudging (shaking) even when you aren't doing anything? Or does it just say tilt without any warning? One thing you can try is use a different controller if you have one. I'm wondering if the controller is giving some invalid data if it's worn out or maybe low battery.

@Butterkins - Sorry to hear you are disappointed. The more tables we do, the more we find what we can do to enhance the lighting. The PS3 tables were enhanced later in our development, and those enhancements haven't made it to Xbox 360 yet. Unfortunatly the hardware is different so it's not just copy and paste. An artist will go in and modify the values by hand until they look similar. From my understanding we plan to have someone do that and patch it in the future.

We take all of your comments into consideration. Understand though, that even though the Xbox and PS3 are pretty powerful, they do have limitations especially with Texture fill and bandwidth. So sometimes a lower resolution texture is necessary to get a good framerate. On the other hand, we will look to see what we can do to improve these.

Ammonitida's controller, like all Xbox 360 controllers that have been out of the packaging for more than hour, has a left analog stick that is no longer capable of recentering itself. The hardware has no natural dead zone though, and it is left to the developer to create one or account for drift in some other way. And yeah, for whatever reason Black Hole seems more susceptible to undesired nudging than the others. The easy fix is to recenter your left stick manually when this happens, but it would be great if Farsight could add a dead zone since nudging does not exactly demand high analog precision.

Thanks Mike for addressing the fans requests! I'm very confident y'all could get the Xbox 360 version to look as good as the PlayStation 3 release.

Mike Reitmeyer said:

...The PS3 tables were enhanced later in our development, and those enhancements haven't made it to Xbox 360 yet. Unfortunately the hardware is different so it's not just copy and paste. An artist will go in and modify the values by hand until they look similar. From my understanding we plan to have someone do that and patch it in the future.

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Thanks for letting us know there are plans to address the 360 version's lighting on the launch tables. Several of us thought as much, but it's always good to have confirmation.

We use a deadzone of 33% in each direction. Nudging works off the delta values of the controller outside the deadzone in directions away from center. So if it's tilting it means the controller's analog valus are going from near center to the edge repeatedly. I haven't seen this issue here yet, but we'll keep looking.

Mike Reitmeyer said:

We use a deadzone of 33% in each direction. Nudging works off the delta values of the controller outside the deadzone in directions away from center. So if it's tilting it means the controller's analog valus are going from near center to the edge repeatedly. I haven't seen this issue here yet, but we'll keep looking.

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Oh well that's pretty weird then. I have pretty bad drift on my beloved 2008 Puke Green Euro Improved D-pad controller, so I'm always acutely aware of recentering. And I've noticed "ghost nudging" on Black Hole. But it sounds like you've implemented nudging in the best way possible, so who knows.

This game is like a long term GF. Nothing special (at first) to look at, but has the best peronality you could wish for and the looks grow on you day after day.

But seriously, if you notice the graphics that much, you aint playing the game!

Craig Booth said:

This game is like a long term GF. Nothing special (at first) to look at, but has the best peronality you could wish for and the looks grow on you day after day.

But seriously, if you notice the graphics that much, you aint playing the game!

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Nice analogy Craig! That made me chuckle!
I can think of a few other long term GF qualities, but thought the better of posting them!

I'm relieved to hear that Farsight will be working to update and patch the current Xbox tables. Personally I'm very happy with how they are now, but welcome any improvements. I also have a PS3 so I can buy this game for both and probably will just to support Farsight's further efforts. The more tables, the better!