EM; root for a classic.

[Clawhammer]

Big Indian
Gottlieb, 1974
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=257

Top ten rating on IPMD. Has a Vari-target (how hard you hit it determines how much it scores.) Completing the three top rollovers (remember that there was no flipper to change the lit rollover back in these days) lights the drop targets for a special. The trick is that you have to complete the drop bank after the rollovers and the drop targets are kind of hidden behind the Vari-target. A nice challenge, but a bit of a one-trick pony.

Royal Flush
Gottlieb, 1976
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=2035

12,250 units plus a later SS release. Royal Flush is a great example of the card theme. A slanted bank of nine cards, plus three colors of jokers, combine for superior gameplay.

Jet Spin
Gottlieb, 1977 (sensing a pattern yet?)
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=1290

A three-paned Roto-target and a Vari-target. A typical minimalist EM layout still allows for multiple ways to get both specials and extra balls. It's a long shot to nail that center target on the Roto-target. A lot of fun.

Spirit of 76
Gottlieb, 1976 (technically December, 1975)
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=2293

10,300 units plus a later SS release. There was a 2-player version (Pioneer) and a special version celebrating the lifting of the decades-long ban of pinball in NYC (appropriately named New York.) Has a beautifully symmetrical play field. The basic goal is to complete A-B-C-D-E, with the center-top C being the "skill shot," since all of the other letters have a second way to collect them. Twin banks of drop targets add to play value.

Aztec
Williams, 1976
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=119

10,150 units. Various combinations of collecting A-Z-T-E-C will light double bonus and/or a dead-center button for extra ball. Bonus is in increments of 5,000. The bonus count (as far as I know) is unique—it counts by thousands, unless you get double bonus. Then, it counts by ten thousands. This one is well-worth seeking out on Visual Pinball.

Nice list!

 

[Clawhammer]

Super Soccer
Gottlieb, 1975.
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=2443

Fun layout with two spinners. Plastic balls accumulate in the backbox which are counted towards your bonus. This can be collected during ball in play, counting down the balls one by one in a particularly satisfying way. Quite similar to Gottlieb's 300, also an excellent game.

Here's a Youtube of the game's 2-player version, Soccer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7gPRIBJzjM
Camera angle isn't great, but it gives an idea of what the plastic ball mechanism looks like.

 

[Jim O'Brien]

El Doado
Gottlieb 1975
http://ipdb.org/search.pl?any=El+Dorado&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#766

Gator
Bally 1968
http://ipdb.org/search.pl?any=Gator&sortby=name&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#987

 

[SilverBallFiend]

What I definately hope to see:

Lucky Hand, 1977 - Gottlieb (AKA Jacks Open)
("Lucky Hand" is the Add-a-ball version of "Jacks Open", 1977 - Emulating the Add-a-ball version makes more sense for TPA due to limitations with "specials")
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1488

Volley, 1976 - Gottlieb
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=2743

Pin Up, 1975 - Gottlieb (AKA King Pin)
("Pin up" is the Add-a-ball version of "King Pin", 1973 - Emulating the Add-a-ball version makes more sense for TPA due to limitations with "specials")
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=1789

Gold Strike, 1975 - Gottlieb (AKA El Dorado)
("Gold Strike" is the Add-a-ball version of "El Dorado", 1975 - Emulating the Add-a-ball version makes more sense for TPA due to limitations with "specials")
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1042


What we will never see but would be interesting for the sake of preserving unique pinball:

Challenger, 1971 - Gottlieb (very different style, head-to-head pinball, only 110 units made)
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=483

 

[Zorgwon]

Four Million BC is definitely a table I'd love to try. Saw some video a while back, and like Jutter says, it seems really ahead of its time.

The dinosaur art is also nice. 4MBC would be a good addition. It wasn't in the poll results, though.

Slick Chick is in the MS Pinball Arcade and fairly well made there. It's not much fun - at least for me. Just better than Central Park which is also toprated. It has no outlanes but a drain hole in the lower playfield.

 

[vpalmer]

i think as long as EM are little easy to do than some SS tables (in most cases here no toys or complex rules) but here not everyone who like to see EM in regular table packs, FS can start to release EM machines for TPA as alternative table packs (another catalog near "Season one" and "Season two" with words "Electro Mechaniacal") and even with its own EM Season passes 1,2,3, and so on for it - for me this one could be Must Buy, for FS it coul be extra cash with less working expenses.
otherwise with amount of ss machines which still left to make, EMs unfortunately are very unlikely to be seen in regular table pack order

 

[netizen]

otherwise with amount of ss machines which still left to make, EMs unfortunately are very unlikely to be seen in regular table pack order

Lets' think about that for a second. SS tables have been around since the 70's. Where as EM table existed from prior to the 1920s until the late 1970s.
Even if you limit the idea of EM machines to the Flipper era - ipdb returns a search of over 1300 EM titles, where as using the same search features of requiring the game to have flippers ipdb returns only 725 SS games from 1975 until today.

Don't discount the rule sets on EM machines just because there are no ICs controlling the logic. These tables will still take time because that logic will have to be scripted out and coded into the game by someone, and that still takes time. Whereas with modern tables that have roms most of the rule-set programming is already done, FS is more dealing with the art and the physics issues, and those issues do not magically with the age of the machine being digitized.

 

[Zorgwon]

Don't discount the rule sets on EM machines just because there are no ICs controlling the logic. These tables will still take time because that logic will have to be scripted out and coded into the game by someone, and that still takes time.

The rules are usually pretty easy although not always as logical as one would think (thinking of Central Park: does every target give a Special?). Considering that they didn't make any Gottlieb EM now gives an idea of the future.

 

[Kolchak357]

Just came across this video on YouTube. Gottlieb's Jungle Queen. Nice artwork and the smaller upper flippers give it a different action from most pins of the mid 1970's.

 

[Snorzel]

Just came across this video on YouTube. Gottlieb's Jungle Queen. Nice artwork and the smaller upper flippers give it a different action from most pins of the mid 1970's.

I now own a jungle Queen. In preatty good shape but the score reels dont reset all the way to zero. Trying to learn and fix it my self. Would love any input you guys have, I will start a youtube account and post vids of my progress in the real machines fourm if you guys would want to have a look. As far as how Jungle Queen plays i really enjoy it. The launch of the ball its important to get the "B" rollover, as its real tough to get it with the flippers. You clear the 10 drop targets and the the kickout hole to earn an extra ball. Simple but tough and unique, and the little 2" flippers do help with getting all the drop targets.

 

[DokkenRokken]

i think as long as EM are little easy to do than some SS tables (in most cases here no toys or complex rules) but here not everyone who like to see EM in regular table packs, FS can start to release EM machines for TPA as alternative table packs (another catalog near "Season one" and "Season two" with words "Electro Mechaniacal") and even with its own EM Season passes 1,2,3, and so on for it - for me this one could be Must Buy, for FS it coul be extra cash with less working expenses.
otherwise with amount of ss machines which still left to make, EMs unfortunately are very unlikely to be seen in regular table pack order

The thing is that those EM's would count against the contractual number of tables that Farsight has in their agreed upon licensing deals with Williams, Gottlieb, etc. So for every EM they would make, that's one less more popular and better selling SS or DMD table we'll get.

On top of that, as Farsight has continually said over the years, EMs just don't see and aren't very popular. Personally, I wouldn't mind 1 EM a season, just to keep everyone happy, but obviously that's not going to happen.

 

[Bowflex]

The thing is that those EM's would count against the contractual number of tables that Farsight has in their agreed upon licensing deals with Williams, Gottlieb, etc. So for every EM they would make, that's one less more popular and better selling SS or DMD table we'll get.

On top of that, as Farsight has continually said over the years, EMs just don't see and aren't very popular. Personally, I wouldn't mind 1 EM a season, just to keep everyone happy, but obviously that's not going to happen.

There is still the logic problem of saying em's don't sell well. If they based the future of solid state tables off of the sales figures for genie, el dorado, lights camera action, goin nuts and teed off, we would have no pinball arcade to discuss.
They released 3 mediocre em games (I like big shot quite a bit but it doesn't compare to many tables of that era) that are not well regarded or popular and have allowed that to dictate their entire philosophy. Have them release a game ranked in the top ten em polls from gottlieb (since they have no limit) and see if that does better. If so great and release a few more QUALITY AND WELL REGARDED EMs down the road. If it doesn't sell at least they have a leg to stand in on the argument. I personally don't buy it for now. Two turds and one above average table sold poorly? Who would have thought!?!

 

[DokkenRokken]

There is still the logic problem of saying em's don't sell well. If they based the future of solid state tables off of the sales figures for genie, el dorado, lights camera action, goin nuts and teed off, we would have no pinball arcade to discuss.
They released 3 mediocre em games (I like big shot quite a bit but it doesn't compare to many tables of that era) that are not well regarded or popular and have allowed that to dictate their entire philosophy. Have them release a game ranked in the top ten em polls from gottlieb (since they have no limit) and see if that does better. If so great and release a few more QUALITY AND WELL REGARDED EMs down the road. If it doesn't sell at least they have a leg to stand in on the argument. I personally don't buy it for now. Two turds and one above average table sold poorly? Who would have thought!?!

Hey, don't blame me, I'm only quoting the company that sells the games. lol

I kinda think they would know better than us. Even if you take the sales factor out of it, they're still "not popular enough" to warrant them. (Another direct quote from Farsight)

 

[soundwave106]

Perhaps some of it is what I see as a technical hurdle with EMs is that they cannot be emulated; they have to pretty much script the entire table. It might actually be more difficult to re-create an EM (even with the simpler rules) versus say a System 11 game because of that factor.

Their current EM lineup entirely came from the Hall of Fame series, and is influenced by that series' desire to be historical (which means including some of the very old EMs, some like Ace High of which aren't of much interest these days). I agree that it's questionable to infer bad EM sales from the current selection, which is not cream of the crop.. However, perhaps part of the sales impressions comes from the early solid state machines, of which they've picked some of the cream of the crop there (Firepower, Gorgar, and Black Knight certainly are in my book) and of which is close enough to the mid 1970s pinballs for them to make a conclusion....

Still, Big Shot is the only mid-70s table that's represented and that's sort of a shame. The mid 1970s to early 1980s was the height of the pinball phenomenon, really.

 

[Flotilla]

I would love to see Fireball in Season 4; it's an EM table that doesn't feel like an EM table with all the cool features it had. And it has multiball!

 

[DokkenRokken]

There is still the logic problem of saying em's don't sell well. If they based the future of solid state tables off of the sales figures for genie, el dorado, lights camera action, goin nuts and teed off, we would have no pinball arcade to discuss.
They released 3 mediocre em games (I like big shot quite a bit but it doesn't compare to many tables of that era) that are not well regarded or popular and have allowed that to dictate their entire philosophy. Have them release a game ranked in the top ten em polls from gottlieb (since they have no limit) and see if that does better. If so great and release a few more QUALITY AND WELL REGARDED EMs down the road. If it doesn't sell at least they have a leg to stand in on the argument. I personally don't buy it for now. Two turds and one above average table sold poorly? Who would have thought!?!

Someone on the FB page JUST asked about EM's today, so I'm guessing it was one of you?


Question: Have you guys ever considered doing more EMs? There are a few I'd LOVE to see, like Fireball. Keep up the good work!


Answer: Not really, especially considering we do only one table a month now and EMs have been poor sellers when we have done them.

I'm not sure how many times they have to keep answering the same question over and over? I'm gonna take a stab and say that even if they DID do "Fireball", odds are it would be the same result, which unfortunately sucks for those who want the table/want more EMs. Like I said, as much as I'm not a fan of them, I would mind 1 EM a season or even every other season. It doesn't hurt to add variety. The issue is that EMs just aren't very popular with the general pinball fan.

 

[Zorgwon]

They released 3 mediocre em games (I like big shot quite a bit but it doesn't compare to many tables of that era) that are not well regarded or popular and have allowed that to dictate their entire philosophy. Have them release a game ranked in the top ten em polls from gottlieb (since they have no limit) and see if that does better. If so great and release a few more QUALITY AND WELL REGARDED EMs down the road. If it doesn't sell at least they have a leg to stand in on the argument. I personally don't buy it for now. Two turds and one above average table sold poorly? Who would have thought!?!

Central Park is ranked high, for whatever reason. I'm not sure if Genie sold poorly. It's sold in a pack only. On the leaderboards Genie gets its 1000 scores per week.

It's also interesting that Ask Homeworks makes money with old Zaccaria tables of random quality.

 

[Bowflex]

Central Park is ranked high, for whatever reason. I'm not sure if Genie sold poorly. It's sold in a pack only. On the leaderboards Genie gets its 1000 scores per week.

It's also interesting that Ask Homeworks makes money with old Zaccaria tables of random quality.

Good point. EMs sold poorly but they are in packs. That would suggest the packs they are in are low sellers then? So Scared Stiff and Cactus Canyon must have done quite poorly as well? Season 1 did have certain platforms where the tables were all sold individually so you could make a case for Big Shot selling poorly while it was offered on its own but there is only one other EM and it was sold as part of a pack and part of a season. How do you measure that? The pass wasn't available until well after it was released so a spike or dip would not register. I thought it was three EMs but there are only two. Hardly a reliable amount of data for any truly scientific measurement.

 

[DokkenRokken]

Good point. EMs sold poorly but they are in packs. That would suggest the packs they are in are low sellers then? So Scared Stiff and Cactus Canyon must have done quite poorly as well? Season 1 did have certain platforms where the tables were all sold individually so you could make a case for Big Shot selling poorly while it was offered on its own but there is only one other EM and it was sold as part of a pack and part of a season. How do you measure that? The pass wasn't available until well after it was released so a spike or dip would not register. I thought it was three EMs but there are only two. Hardly a reliable amount of data for any truly scientific measurement.

So basically you're saying that Farsight is wrong and full of it?

 

[Flotilla]

Someone on the FB page JUST asked about EM's today, so I'm guessing it was one of you?


Question: Have you guys ever considered doing more EMs? There are a few I'd LOVE to see, like Fireball. Keep up the good work!


Answer: Not really, especially considering we do only one table a month now and EMs have been poor sellers when we have done them.

I'm not sure how many times they have to keep answering the same question over and over?

When the thread that catalogues Farsight's response to potential future tables is 60% "no, no one has shown interest in this table", can you blame people for voicing support for their favorites?