Farsight comes clean on issues with 360 platform

[Sean DonCarlos]

Well with all these issues and red tape why not produce a physical disc. I love the pinball arcade, but I am tired of all of this drama, and would like to play the other tables in my lifetime.

FarSight would like you to be able to play the tables sooner rather than later as well. It's not just a game to them; this is their income. But producing physical discs involves its own set of expenses and headaches associated with physical distribution channels, and the updates to them would encounter similar difficulties and delays (or more discs, which is impractical and too expensive), so there is no gain to be had by going down that path now.

The PC version was nearing the next step in the Greenlight process last I checked; perhaps we will get some good news in that department soon.

 

[Rudy]

I like The Pinball Arcade as much as the next guy on here, but I'd rather we have the situation we're currently in than a scenario where licenses might be compromised by developers saying things that shouldn't be said publicly.

It's obvious the 360 is easy to develop on, but hell to patch and distribute DLC. Farsight have not only acknowledged that they know what's up, but they've been as open as they can whenever they can (the post at the very start is proof that they will speak when pushed... but even that isn't enough to please some people). They've admitted that they might as well try to add more to the patch if they only have a certain amount of patches they can use... so this big update coming might also do a lot of other things that are coming soon to other platforms (lighting/table select screens/flipper changes? etc.)

The big threat was that Farsight were dropping the 360 altogether, but the update has changed that and shown that they are working as hard as they can in the background, although obviously that can't be seen because there hasn't been anything released into the public for some time. I'm patient to wait because the next update sounds like it's going to be killer, even if developers can't directly say what's in it.

 

[Jeff Strong]

If the roadblock is the title update fees, maybe they should consider a Kickstarter so that they can release title updates more often? For instance, if they get enough donations to cover a title update, then they can submit the next couple table packs now instead of waiting to release multiple packs a few months from now. I know it's not ideal to go the KS route again, but if 360 users want new tables ASAP then it might be worth it for them to donate.

I really don't know if enough people would be willing to dish out more Kickstarter money though...and it might tick a number of people off even more....on second though it's probably not such a great idea....just thinking out loud here....

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

If the roadblock is the title update fees, maybe they should consider a Kickstarter so that they can release title updates more often? For instance, if they get enough donations to cover a title update, then they can submit the next couple table packs now instead of waiting to release multiple packs a few months from now. I know it's not ideal to go the KS route again, but if 360 users want new tables ASAP then it might be worth it for them to donate.

I really don't know if enough people would be willing to dish out more Kickstarter money though....

I'm afraid that lead pig wouldn't fly. Kickstarter can't solve everything. And think of the outrage if the money somehow was raised and then MS rejected the update a few times and it was delayed to the point where it would have been without the kickstarter. FarSight would have to build a mountaintop fortress around their studio.

Without knowing what the reason is for the delay, it's impossible to say what action FarSight should or shouldn't take. But I think getting the PC version and its DLC out would take a lot of the heat off. Lots of people have PCs, it sounds like the system requirements are not going to be very steep, and I don't think Steam has very restrictive policies when it comes to DLC. (I'm still puzzled by why TPA needed to go through the Greenlight process when that utter travesty of a pinball game made it through directly, but that's another thread.)

 

[Jeff Strong]

I'm afraid that lead pig wouldn't fly. Kickstarter can't solve everything. And think of the outrage if the money somehow was raised and then MS rejected the update a few times and it was delayed to the point where it would have been without the kickstarter. FarSight would have to build a mountaintop fortress around their studio.

Without knowing what the reason is for the delay, it's impossible to say what action FarSight should or shouldn't take. But I think getting the PC version and its DLC out would take a lot of the heat off. Lots of people have PCs, it sounds like the system requirements are not going to be very steep, and I don't think Steam has very restrictive policies when it comes to DLC. (I'm still puzzled by why TPA needed to go through the Greenlight process when that utter travesty of a pinball game made it through directly, but that's another thread.)

Agreed on all points. I actually edited my post while you were posting, and I came to the conclusion that it wasn't a good idea.

Yes, the PC requirements are very low, so anyone with a USB 360 controller should really consider plugging it into their PC.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Agreed on all points. I actually edited my post while you were posting, and I came to the conclusion that it wasn't a good idea.

Yes, the PC requirements are very low, so anyone with a USB 360 controller should really consider plugging it into their PC.

No worries. I need to remember to get me another one of those controllers, though. I can't go without the analog stick for nudging anymore, drives me batty playing on the iPad.

 

[Jeff Strong]

No worries. I need to remember to get me another one of those controllers, though. I can't go without the analog stick for nudging anymore, drives me batty playing on the iPad.

Good call on that one, my friend

 

[spoonman]

Well, I've heard his from more than a few devs. MS is greedy and there is no denying that. It reminds me of Nintendo in the 80's controlling their 3rd party companies with huge license fees and forced cartridge manufacturing quantities.

I would suggest for Farsight to cease further DLC on the 360 to stop losses and give the owners of TPA some sort of discount on the disc version of it (whenever that is planned for).

As a PS3 owner and ex-Xbox RROD (x3) owner I really hate to see Farsight waste money with MS.
I feel badly for 360 owners, but I don't see many other options.

 

[mark21667]

X Boxes get YLOD now?

 

[Matt McIrvin]

Because of Non Disclosure Agreements.

Your devs already say so much more in public than I'd be comfortable saying about any job-in-progress I've ever had (which is basically nothing). From a user's perspective, it's terrific, but it's unusual for the industry.

 

[lettuce]

Because of Non Disclosure Agreements.

What about the agreement you made to Xbox 360 owners of releasing tables every month!!?.....or doesn't that count for anything?

Its pretty obvious that 360 owners aren't ever going to see monthly DLC tables, so why not do the right thing and make an offical announcement on it, would cut 50% of the facebook posts constantly asking about LDC for 360!

 

[Gord Lacey]

Jesus, are you being serious? The "agreement" they made with 360 owners? They WANT to get tables out every month, it's just not feasible for them to do it. Mike has explained why they can't make a big statement about it, so give him a break.

 

[lettuce]

Exactly, im not blaming FS for not getting the tables out every month, i know its MS being the problem here, what i am saying is they should at least make people who dont visit these forums (the majority of people on their Facebook page) aware that there WILL NOT be monthly DLC release, im sure they can word it in away that wouldnt breach these 'Disclosure Agreements'

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

It sucks to see 360 owners get shafted by MS when the games made on an XBOX, the irony!

 

[Rudy]

All that needs to be done is for Farsight to change the description of the game on the Xbox Marketplace with the next update (if that's possible) that says quarterly releases.

The irony being that until the update is released, they can't do anything to the original description. Other than that they're doing all they can and that's good enough for me

 

[shutyertrap]

Exactly, im not blaming FS for not getting the tables out every month, i know its MS being the problem here, what i am saying is they should at least make people who dont visit these forums (the majority of people on their Facebook page) aware that there WILL NOT be month DLC release, im sure they can word it in away that would breach these 'Disclosure Agreements'

Except that won't work, cause Facebook users can't seem to even get the hint that TAF is not coming out any time soon, despite someone saying so at least twice a day! They go there and complain, and then log right back off, never bothering to read. That's why this place rules!

 

[Butterkins]

Well with all these issues and red tape why not produce a physical disc.

How would that solve anything?

It would make things even more complicated, time-consuming and expensive.

Some of the problems are due to the core business model. Even Zen -- who are "published" by Microsoft (and I use that term loosely) -- have had substantial problems and delays due to the costs of DLC.

Oh, and Microsoft take a royalty cut for being the "publisher". It's good to be the king.

This is fundamentally a Microsoft issue. They control the entire 360 development experience, from the IDE to the final purchase mechanism. They impose costs and charges on developers at every level.

These are the people who brought us Microsoft Points, paid Avatars that cost more than some games, and an Awards system that earns us 25 cents for a year or more of brand loyalty. Is it really any surprise that they're also gouging small developers?

 

[Butterkins]

What about the agreement you made to Xbox 360 owners of releasing tables every month!!?

Perhaps you should ask for your $5 back.

Or file a class action lawsuit for it, based on this alleged "agreement".

 

[aangel]

How would that solve anything?

It would make things even more complicated, time-consuming and expensive.

Some of the problems are due to the core business model. Even Zen -- who are "published" by Microsoft (and I use that term loosely) -- have had substantial problems and delays due to the costs of DLC.

Oh, and Microsoft take a royalty cut for being the "publisher". It's good to be the king.

This is fundamentally a Microsoft issue. They control the entire 360 development experience, from the IDE to the final purchase mechanism. They impose costs and charges on developers at every level.

These are the people who brought us Microsoft Points, paid Avatars that cost more than some games, and an Awards system that earns us 25 cents for a year or more of brand loyalty. Is it really any surprise that they're also gouging small developers?

If they are throwing 40K for each title update for the 360 then just why not put that money into making a disc like PHOF? That way there are no bugs no issues, no 360 users waiting evey week to see if a crumb or particle is going to be released, searching on a forum and facebook page only to find hidden obscure answers that don't produce any resolutions. I'd rather wait for a disc with several tables on it, than 3-6 months for two tables and another 3-6 centuries for two more tables....

 

[karl]

I do not believe Farsight would sell 1/10 of the copies they can on xbox live if they go for the disc option instead (you need a huge marketing budget to do that) and I also believe all the other costs would be far more than 40 000 with a disc version and a whole lotta extra work. The questions on facebook will never go away no matter what they say or do. I have seen Official statements like "The game will be out in 2 weeks on ps3" followed by people asking when it will be out on ps3. That is the nature of Facbook. Ask, beg, complain and curse before you even read what has been confirmed. I am not saying I'm against a disc version, just don't think it will happen any time soon