If FS is after authenticity, why the rule changes?

[Dumahim]

Wish I could have bought an extra ball last night. I was one hit away from starting the last illusion.

 

[Richard B]

Theater of Magic does in real life. I want to say one of the others might but I can't remember for certain.

TOTAN has a "buy-in" score list, so it's reasonable to assume that at least some machines allow it, though the most recent release on VP does not. RBION doesn't, and I don't think there is a modern Stern table that enables this. STTNG not only enables it, but there is a complex ranking system built around it, and it takes some of the sting out of the vicious outlanes. If STTNG happens, and they don't enable this feature, that will have a seriously detrimental effect on the experience.

 

[brakel]

What is a "buy-in" score list? I see people refer to "buy-ins" and I never know what they are talking about. I once tried to google it but couldn't figure it out from my google search either.

 

[Franky]

A "buy-in" means, you buy extra balls during a game - like "continue" at an arcade machine - this means, as long as you throw money in you keep playing - and this means - you need to differ between a "regular-3-ball" score and a "buy-in" score to keep it fair (because normaly you make more points with 20 balls than someone using only 3 balls).

 

[Fungi]

A "buy-in" means, you buy extra balls during your play - almost like "continue" at an arcade machine - this means, as long as you throw money in you can play and this means - you need to differ between a "regular-3-ball" score and a "buy-in" score to keep it fair.

This never interested me since I was never keeping score, but with the TPA goals, I would love this feature. Just give me that one extra ball so I can start that Ringmaster Battle darnit.

 

[Dumahim]

Yeah, I almost never did it unless I was close to a free game or a high score. Otherwise, I'd rather get 3 balls for my tokens instead of 1.

 

[Matt McIrvin]

STTNG not only enables it, but there is a complex ranking system built around it,

And an infuriating sound sample: Marina Sirtis as Counselor Troi saying "I'm sensing you want to continue."

 

[Richard B]

A "buy-in" means, you buy extra balls during a game - like "continue" at an arcade machine - this means, as long as you throw money in you keep playing - and this means - you need to differ between a "regular-3-ball" score and a "buy-in" score to keep it fair (because normaly you make more points with 20 balls than someone using only 3 balls).

Most often the machines limit you to 1-3 extra balls. The only exception I can think of is the VP version of BBB, which allows you to continue as many times as you like, as long as you're willing to pay. Not sure if this is the case on the real machine.

 

[Richard B]

And an infuriating sound sample: Marina Sirtis as Counselor Troi saying "I'm sensing you want to continue."

Yet more reason they should include this feature. We shouldn't be deprived of any sound clips.

 

[SpiffyRob]

This never interested me since I was never keeping score, but with the TPA goals, I would love this feature. Just give me that one extra ball so I can start that Ringmaster Battle darnit.

I would hope that, if they ever bring this feature, they disqualify you from getting any goals if you use it. Not nearly as much of an accomplishment if you're allowed to tack extra balls onto the end of your game. I totally understand the temptation (I nearly threw my controller through the screen when I was one Illusion away from the Grand Finale the first time and I drained) but it's so satisfying when you finally pull it off. Anything that would make that easier would really cheapen it, IMHO.

 

[brakel]

Thanks for the info on buy-ins. I've gone so long never knowing that there were pinball machines with this option. I remember a few video games that had that option but never realized some pinball machines had it also.

 

[Tuomas Hämäläinen]

Most often the machines limit you to 1-3 extra balls. The only exception I can think of is the VP version of BBB, which allows you to continue as many times as you like, as long as you're willing to pay. Not sure if this is the case on the real machine.

Went through a few WPC manuals, it seems to vary a bit from game to game:
- TOM: 1-3
- STTNG: unlimited or 1-3
- RS: unlimited until you reach the west coast or 1-6
- IJ: once.

I would hope that, if they ever bring this feature, they disqualify you from getting any goals if you use it. Not nearly as much of an accomplishment if you're allowed to tack extra balls onto the end of your game. I totally understand the temptation (I nearly threw my controller through the screen when I was one Illusion away from the Grand Finale the first time and I drained) but it's so satisfying when you finally pull it off. Anything that would make that easier would really cheapen it, IMHO.

Totally agree with you on this: they're called "Wizard Goals" for a reason

 

[Fungi]

Totally agree with you on this: they're called "Wizard Goals" for a reason

Hmm. Yeah ok that sounds right.

 

[Richard B]

I'd like buy-ins for no other reason than provide a way to knock the buy-in scores off the high score lists so I can be the king of the machine!

 

[Eric Qel-Droma]

Is there a difference between a 3-ball 1billion and a 3 regular + 3 buy-in 1billion? Yes. The leaderboards should reflect that, I think.

But I, for one' wish I had a bunch more cheat options than I do with these tables. Why should I ever lose a ball to the outlanes without having touched it again? On a pay-per-play arcade machine, I get it. But on what is essentially MY personal copy of ToM? I'd like to be able to play without the arcade's "screw you, quarter-boy" ghost hanging over my shoulder for once. And not everyone is good enough to clear a table's wizard goals. Why shouldn't I be able to turn off tilt in a game I've paid for?

Again, having 100%'ed Williams PHoF, I get the idea of accomplishment. But to not offer cheats or buy-ins or alterations is to ignore parts of the audience, IMHO.

 

[Fuseball]

STTNG is the only game where I feel the buy-ins are essential to your enjoyment of it. Setting it to 5-ball play is the other option (which is what I usually set my STTNG to, with buy-ins disabled). As has already been stated, the buy-in games get their own high score. I wonder if buy-ins enabled will be one of the STTNG kickstarter rewards?

 

[Tuomas Hämäläinen]

STTNG is the only game where I feel the buy-ins are essential to your enjoyment of it. Setting it to 5-ball play is the other option (which is what I usually set my STTNG to, with buy-ins disabled). As has already been stated, the buy-in games get their own high score. I wonder if buy-ins enabled will be one of the STTNG kickstarter rewards?

If one of the rewards is full access to operator menus like with TZ, you should get buy-ins as well (given FS implement a UI to support it).

 

[Richard B]

Is there a difference between a 3-ball 1billion and a 3 regular + 3 buy-in 1billion? Yes. The leaderboards should reflect that, I think.

But I, for one' wish I had a bunch more cheat options than I do with these tables. Why should I ever lose a ball to the outlanes without having touched it again? On a pay-per-play arcade machine, I get it. But on what is essentially MY personal copy of ToM? I'd like to be able to play without the arcade's "screw you, quarter-boy" ghost hanging over my shoulder for once. And not everyone is good enough to clear a table's wizard goals. Why shouldn't I be able to turn off tilt in a game I've paid for?

Again, having 100%'ed Williams PHoF, I get the idea of accomplishment. But to not offer cheats or buy-ins or alterations is to ignore parts of the audience, IMHO.

You can turn tilt off. It's your reward for clearing all table goals, though enabling it disqualifies your score. Pretty useless, since the tilt is so generous anyway. I agree that buy-ins, and possibly other options, would make a great reward for clearing all goals. Of course, that should also disqualify your leaderboard scores, and should be put on a separate ranking list. These already exist in-game. Adding an external one shouldn't be hard, though I know programmers that say differently.

 

[Dan]

I'm no programmer but perhaps somebody would be so kind to explain why Virtual Pinball has fully emulated tables and you can tweak the operator's menu as much as you like. So how come it's so hard for Farsight? Besides that, the PHOF tables and probably TPA ones too are much easier than in real life. Guess I'm not the only one been humiliated by a real MM after playing it on a console. Anyway, all this " We want our videogame version to play exactly the same as the table played when it was new" is nothing more than a sales pitch for the casuals. Congrats for selling in the thousands Farsight, but you should tell it like it is. It's a recreation, not emulation.

 

[Logan812]

I'm no programmer but perhaps somebody would be so kind to explain why Virtual Pinball has fully emulated tables and you can tweak the operator's menu as much as you like. So how come it's so hard for Farsight? Besides that, the PHOF tables and probably TPA ones too are much easier than in real life. Guess I'm not the only one been humiliated by a real MM after playing it on a console. Anyway, all this " We want our videogame version to play exactly the same as the table played when it was new" is nothing more than a sales pitch for the casuals. Congrats for selling in the thousands Farsight, but you should tell it like it is. It's a recreation, not emulation.

That may be the case as far as the physical part of the table, but I'm almost 100% sure that the roms are indeed emulated (except for Black Hole and Gorgar), though I have no idea what settings they chose for the roms though. It's cool to see that all of the easter eggs work (like Old MacDonald on BOP and the restart rom on CV) I suppose it would be nice to be able to go into the settings in some update eventually, but I'm honestly happy with the way it is.

As for VP and TPA, the roms used for VPinMame are the actual roms themselves that, when emulated, behave like the VP table is a real machine. It's the same case in TPA, but the settings are pre-determined by FarSight.