If FS is after authenticity, why the rule changes?

[Sean DonCarlos]

Besides that, the PHOF tables and probably TPA ones too are much easier than in real life. Guess I'm not the only one been humiliated by a real MM after playing it on a console.

I've already answered you in a different thread as to why that is:

One, the replay/specials being extra balls helps inflate scores. (Although it is not true that real tables never do this, on many tables this is an operator-adjustable setting. The Ripley's at CP Pinball gives an extra ball at its replay score. It comes from the days where there were laws against pinball machines giving away free games, many EM machines came in regular and add-a-ball [replays and specials are extra balls] versions for that reason.)

Two, it is far easier to nudge using an analog stick or a touchscreen than it is to properly manipulate a 250-lb table.

Three, the tilt is very liberal on TPA tables. You can get away with murder, although I notice that iOS version of MB seems to be tightened up a bit relative to the older tables...? Most of the real tables I play are pretty tilty.

Four, you can pause a TPA table whenever you like and catch your breath, take a drink, wipe your hands down, whatever. There's no stopping a physical table except between balls. (That sounded vaguely dirty...)

Five, TPA tables seem to use mostly factory settings, although I've noticed MB's ball saver has been turned on (it normally isn't - but please, leave it on!). Real tables are often set on hard, and often the outlane posts are up. If the table was used in a tournament recently, it may still be in a truly murderous state if the operator forgot to put it back in its normal condition.

As best I can tell from personal experience with 7 of the 10 real tables corresponding to TPA tables, the rule of thumb seems to be to divide your average score on the TPA table by 10 to get a rough idea of how you'll do on the real one. Of course, this varies depending on how the real machine is set, how much prior experience you've had on the real one, and the actual table itself.

It should also be noted that once FarSight gets the flipper physics and control issues sorted, TPA scores are likely to exceed real scores by an even greater margin.

 

[Mudfinger]

I'm no programmer but perhaps somebody would be so kind to explain why Virtual Pinball has fully emulated tables and you can tweak the operator's menu as much as you like. So how come it's so hard for Farsight? Besides that, the PHOF tables and probably TPA ones too are much easier than in real life. Guess I'm not the only one been humiliated by a real MM after playing it on a console. Anyway, all this " We want our videogame version to play exactly the same as the table played when it was new" is nothing more than a sales pitch for the casuals. Congrats for selling in the thousands Farsight, but you should tell it like it is. It's a recreation, not emulation.

VISUAL PINBALL is a freeware , open source program maintained by pinball hobbiests and tables are made by authors who have absolutely free -reign to recreate a real-world pinball table in the image that suits themselves. That being said , Most authors do try to recreate them as faithfully as possible to the original but of course are limited by the physics of the program. Some (like JPSALAS) manage to get as close to the real tables as you can and the software for the ROM (VPinmame) allows for access to the opps menu. FARSIGHT could provide players of TPA access to the Opps menu, but probably won't since it might open up a can of worms of idiot players FUBAR'ing the works. (seriously have you read any of the user complaints on FB?) Look ...the best Digital recreation of a pinball machine will probably never be able to compare to playing a real one, so maybe we should be grateful for what we have.

 

[Brian Clark]

FARSIGHT could provide players of TPA access to the Opps menu, but probably won't since it might open up a can of worms of idiot players FUBAR'ing the works. (seriously have you read any of the user complaints on FB?)

Many classic collections have configurable options and leave the obscure stuff out. The operators menu will be included with a special version of Twilight Zone for people who donated over 100 dollars. While it's not emulation, Zen makes it so the operators menus changes don't count on the high score rankings. I know it's not something simple to bug test, but it's part of the real machine.

It's a recreation, not emulation

You could say that for many aspects of Visual Pinball, as well. The ROMs are fully emulated in VP and TPA (with the exception of some older games in TPA, which, as far as I know, is being worked on), but some elements still have to be simulated. An exact recreation is not possible.

 

[Richard B]

ROMs are the only thing that can be emulated. Even hardwired CRT video games (like Pong and Breakout) cannot be emulated, which is why MAME does not support them. Perfectly reproducing mechanics in a digital environment is impossible. However, just because it can't be done perfectly doesn't mean you can't try to get as close as possible.

 

[Brian Clark]

ROMs are the only thing that can be emulated. Even hardwired CRT video games (like Pong and Breakout) cannot be emulated, which is why MAME does not support them. Perfectly reproducing mechanics in a digital environment is impossible.

This is what I was trying to say.

 

[Dan]

@Serenseven: Thank you for the reminder I am generally into short bursts of playing and not hour-long sessions, which is more and more common. Don't have the time.

@Mudfinger: Hey I'm not a fanboy of VP either...I'm not really into JP Salas' tables, he loves fast gameplay so much I sometimes don't see the ball. Also, due to some design problems his balls are always smaller (!). This leaves me with a very picky attitude and "only" a handful of tables that I'm really fond of (mostly by Pinuck, Ezepov and Bob5453)...

 

[Richard B]

@Serenseven: Thank you for the reminder I am generally into short bursts of playing and not hour-long sessions, which is more and more common. Don't have the time.

@Mudfinger: Hey I'm not a fanboy of VP either...I'm not really into JP Salas' tables, he loves fast gameplay so much I sometimes don't see the ball. Also, due to some design problems his balls are always smaller (!). This leaves me with a very picky attitude and "only" a handful of tables that I'm really fond of (mostly by Pinuck, Ezepov and Bob5453)...

Personally, I like the small balls, and his recreations are among my favorites! Also check out Groni/Megapin (he's not made any new tables in ages, but the ones he's done are still among the best), Lord Hiryu, and the Uncles (Reamus and Willy). Remus's Momentum Mod is especially awesome - finally, a pinball recreation that enables cradle separations and transfers!
I don't much care for the original tables, though. Even the best of them like JPs Spider-Man and Pirates Wolves of the Seas aren't as fun as the recreations for me. Part of the reason might be because they're brutally difficult.

 

[Dan]

Tried many of them. I acknowledge the authors' hard work and I know it's no easy task. But in the end, it comes down to personal preferences Haven't tried the Momentum Mod yet, though.

 

[Richard B]

Tried many of them. I acknowledge the authors' hard work and I know it's no easy task. But in the end, it comes down to personal preferences Haven't tried the Momentum Mod yet, though.

So far only 2 tables on VPForums use this mod - Firepower and Mata Hari. He's supposed to have a Freddy table using this mod, but it's not on VP forums, or any other site I could find.

 

[Brian Clark]

Even the best of them like JPs Spider-Man and Pirates Wolves of the Seas aren't as fun as the recreations for me. Part of the reason might be because they're brutally difficult.

I consider those two more semi-originals. Not exactly like the real table, but still designed after them. The latter is based on Pirates of the Carribean.

 

[Richard B]

I consider those two more semi-originals. Not exactly like the real table, but still designed after them. The latter is based on Pirates of the Carribean.

True, though I wonder why he just didn't recreate the originals.

 

[Brian Clark]

True, though I wonder why he just didn't recreate the originals.

I know there's an agreement on certain Stern games where ones in production (which isn't the case anymore, but may have been when they were made) can't be recreated. They both use SAM, which means use of the ROMs isn't allowed until they make a successor.

 

[Richard B]

I know there's an agreement on certain Stern games where ones in production (which isn't the case anymore, but may have been when they were made) can't be recreated. They both use SAM, which means use of the ROMs isn't allowed until they make a successor.

Does X-Men use SAM, or it's successor?

 

[Brian Clark]

Does X-Men use SAM, or it's successor?

I'm not sure.

 

[PiN WiZ]

Does X-Men use SAM, or it's successor?

X-Men uses a second generation Stern S.A.M Board System that was introduced in the Transformers table.