PC Version 1.19.4 Discussion & Feedback

[_gl]

Still seeing the physics bugs I see on the iPhone. Ball sometimes goes through geometry. The worst example was just now on Tales - the ball entered the left loop, but when it got to the top of the table, it somehow jumped to the highest clear ramp (the swirly bit)! Most extreme I've seen, usually it just goes through solids.

Also find the use of the Esc key really non-intuitive. And there's a real bug - when you get into a 'purchase' menu and press Esc, it instead confirms the selection and launches the Steam purchase dialog! I know it's not true, but it looks like FS is trying to trick you into buying! .

Also just like on the iPhone, many tables are way too bright & saturated, with the artwork so 'loud' that the lights need to be completely blown out to compete.

There's so many things I'd tweak if I were working on TPA. Even little things like holographic stickers on spinners (BoP, STTNG) could be simulated nicely with shaders.

Physical sounds: I think a few could use updates & be of higher quality (are they compressed? uncompressed 48k would be excellent) - but one sound is really out-of-date & unrealistic: the 'kicked out of a hole' sound. More like a wet fart in rubber pants .

But now my key latency is fixed, it responds as good as my iPhone - except I can finally nudge! Makes all the difference to your scores ...

 

[an ox]

if I buy BH for 6.49 or whatever do I get RBION *and* TOM too?

Was going to hold off buying any tables till I saw the ps4 version but I caved and bought MM because who can live without MM and damn. Plays so well. So I want at least a few faves on my PC too.

Starting in fullscreen windowed cures the thing where it was starting up in anaglyph 3d. Running 2560x1600, postprocessing on, everything max, 60fps all the way. Lovely.

The only thing I could wish for would be a hires texture pack at some point, at the rez I'm running you can really see the lack of rez od some of the default textures.

But damn, it plays so well. Feels like I'm a way better pinball player than I ever was on my ipad .

 

[_gl]

Oh yeah one more request that all pin sims seem to forget: the 'ball smacking against the top glass' sound!

It's rare but I love it when that happens on a real table. Reminds you of the forces at work (and it's just plain fun).

 

[_gl]

Starting in fullscreen windowed cures the thing where it was starting up in anaglyph 3d.

@an ox, are you running Nivida? If so look for the Stereoscopic 3D option on their control panel, it's probably enabled. Or if you have TriDef, it's probably that.

 

[Jeff Strong]

if I buy BH for 6.49 or whatever do I get RBION *and* TOM too?

Was going to hold off buying any tables till I saw the ps4 version but I caved and bought MM because who can live without MM and damn. Plays so well. So I want at least a few faves on my PC too.

Starting in fullscreen windowed cures the thing where it was starting up in anaglyph 3d. Running 2560x1600, postprocessing on, everything max, 60fps all the way. Lovely.

The only thing I could wish for would be a hires texture pack at some point, at the rez I'm running you can really see the lack of rez od some of the default textures.

But damn, it plays so well. Feels like I'm a way better pinball player than I ever was on my ipad .

Yes, check here mate:

http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...-Discussion-And-Feedback)?p=112505#post112505

 

[_gl]

When I first tried to customize the keys, I accidentally got both Nudge Up and Plunger Button on the same key. I couldn't work out why the ball kept falling off the launch ramp on STTNG .

BTW is there any reason why Plunger and Plunger Button shouldn't be bound to the same key by default? Works fine here (and is simpler).

EDIT: ... I can see it matters if you have analogue plunger control, but on a keyboard it makes no difference.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

I already completed the T2 Standard Goals during the beta, but did not unlock the respective achievement for the game. How do I fix this?

 

[BONKERS]

Are you guys using some kind of Mipmapping?
I ask because, the tables seem to behave as if they aren't. When the view zooms out and moves the base texture for the table background shimmers/flickers(Aliasing) in movement as if there are not mipmaps or the mipmaps aren't done well to minimize such a problem.


If you downsample the game from a much higher resolution (Say 2x2 your display resolution> So in the case of 1600x900, it would be 3200x1800) it helps quite a bit in reducing the problem.


Forcing something like 4x4 OGSSAA (16xSSAA) via Nvidia Inspector with the DX9 AA bit "0x000020C1"
Also helps aleviate the problem

But such a thing should not be required to solve an issue like this.

This isn't really something that could be shown in a screenshot, only a very high quality video without compression issues(Because the compression would hide it)

I am just pointing this out, because I am very interested in the game and I want it to look it's best.


As well,
The UI would look so much better if everything wasn't compressed and chroma sub-sampled
There is so much sub-sampling of the chroma channels of the UI assets you can count the pixels in huge blocks.

The idea is that the human eye is much more succetible to changes in Luma resolution(Brightness) than Chroma resolution(Color)

And I don't agree with this belief.

It just harms the quality of something that is supposed to be pristine and clean in the case of a video game. And so many do it and it's just ugly and unprofessional IMO.

Modern PCs are more than capable of the extra storage to store higher quality 2D assets and they certainaly have the processing power.

Not everyone has a high end PC? fine. simply offer an option for lower quality stuff.

I mean hell, a photoshop level 12 JPG without CSS is higher quality than this. And it's near lossless (But far from).


Screenshots (Captured in Lossless PNG from the game, enlarged 150% Nearest Neighbor and then re-saved again as a PNG) Look at the circled areas
http://i.minus.com/ibqbPAetY7yUJY.png
http://i.minus.com/iYYjchTvjzsFn.png


These assets were not obviously created this way to start with.



Honestly it's a good looking game. These kinds of things just really irk me though
and it's not just in the menus, the table textures and others suffer the same issues.


Here's a screenshot of a subsampled table texture (note the blockyness in the Williams Logo)

http://i3.minus.com/iVyfp9KNRnVmg.png


Here's another showing subsampled textures on the Terminator Table
http://i3.minus.com/i2zi0Jl9QUXr6.png


From the looks of it, they may have scanned or captured the original Table backgrounds for use as textures. And then maybe subsampled them at somepoint between then and final compilation for the game.

That or they were that way to begin with in this specific case. But I have my doubts.


And I would LOVE to see it improved. Because this game has a ton of great potential in many areas.

 

[_gl]

The idea is that the human eye is much more succetible to changes in Luma resolution(Brightness) than Chroma resolution(Color)
And I don't agree with this belief.

Yeah, me neither. I've been working in (as well as programming for) video for a while now. Admittedly with most natural footage, sub-sampling matters less when you get to 1080p+ resolutions. But as soon as you have saturated colours, it's still really ugly. And of course that's what games are full of.

That red Williams logo is especially bad, as it's low resolution to being with (so the subsampled chroma res is really low).

I think the problem is that FS have been catering for platforms where space is limited and low-res + compression is essential. Now on the PC resources are almost limitless (at least on higher-end systems), but I'm sure it will take a lot of work to update all that stuff. I expect it's being done for PS4 as that has to look great as a next-gen title, so I'm sure it will be ported to PC eventually.

I have the same issue with the non-ROM sounds, which also seem to be lower-quality and probably compressed. No need for that on the PC, considering how relatively little space they take up.

My real concern is the tight deadline FS have set themselves for cranking out tables every month. I would be happier if they took a bit more time, fully beta tested the tables before release to squash the bugs, as well as polish quality issues like this. I don't know if their business plan supports taking more time, but the alternative is that new content always wins in terms of priorities, and that there's less and less incentive to update older tables (as they take less money over time).

I love and fully support FS's M.O. - digitize and preserve these beautiful works of interactive art. But I'm not seeing the attention to detail that I'd like, and the bugs (like the physics ones that affect all tables) seem to take forever to get addressed. I know I know, harsh realities of having to make it pay to survive. But the purist in me would like to see one guy sit down, and polish and refine everything, rather than rush out one table pack after the other. (I actually thought about programming a pin sim years ago - if I had, that's what I'd love to be doing).

 

[BONKERS]

Admittedly with most natural footage, sub-sampling matters less when you get to 1080p+ resolutions. But as soon as you have saturated colours, it's still really ugly. And of course that's what games are full of.

Couldn't agree more.

I think the problem is that FS have been catering for platforms where space is limited and low-res + compression is essential. Now on the PC resources are almost limitless (at least on higher-end systems), but I'm sure it will take a lot of work to update all that stuff. I expect it's being done for PS4 as that has to look great as a next-gen title, so I'm sure it will be ported to PC eventually.

I have the same issue with the non-ROM sounds, which also seem to be lower-quality and probably compressed. No need for that on the PC, considering how relatively little space they take up.

My real concern is the tight deadline FS have set themselves for cranking out tables every month. I would be happier if they took a bit more time, fully beta tested the tables before release to squash the bugs, as well as polish quality issues like this. I don't know if their business plan supports taking more time, but the alternative is that new content always wins in terms of priorities, and that there's less and less incentive to update older tables (as they take less money over time).

I love and fully support FS's M.O. - digitize and preserve these beautiful works of interactive art. But I'm not seeing the attention to detail that I'd like, and the bugs (like the physics ones that affect all tables) seem to take forever to get addressed. I know I know, harsh realities of having to make it pay to survive. But the purist in me would like to see one guy sit down, and polish and refine everything, rather than rush out one table pack after the other. (I actually thought about programming a pin sim years ago - if I had, that's what I'd love to be doing).

Yeah the Sounds are definitely lower quality than expected too, At least the sound-effects. The Original Table music (Which is synthesized) sounds fine. But everything else is lower quality.

I think a little Time and TLC is needed for the game to be well rounded and full of polish

 

[an ox]

@an ox, are you running Nivida? If so look for the Stereoscopic 3D option on their control panel, it's probably enabled. Or if you have TriDef, it's probably that.

yeah I just looked at the settings and that was on, I do run a few things in oculus rift mode but don't ever recall turning that option in the prefs on.

Happy with how it's running now, will pick up BH and the others next session

 

[Gozer]

I agree.

Farsight really needs to slow their roll before starting season three and really put some effort into polishing the whole experience.

The texture res alone is really sub par.

 

[debuggiest]

I've never played a console version, but I gotta say, now that I have a PC that can run TPA - I'm shocked at how good it looks. Now I just need to buy a controller that TPA can support, because I can't get the one I have here working.

 

[netizen]

I've never played a console version, but I gotta say, now that I have a PC that can run TPA - I'm shocked at how good it looks. Now I just need to buy a controller that TPA can support, because I can't get the one I have here working.

What kind of controller do you have?
I just got my sixaxis controller working today using motioninjoy.

 

[debuggiest]

What kind of controller do you have?
I just got my sixaxis controller working today using motioninjoy.

just some no-name gamepad that looks like a super nintendo controller.

 

[DrainoBraino]

just some no-name gamepad that looks like a super nintendo controller.

Should work. Dunno about nudging though, might have to bind that to a strange spot.

 

[Fungi]

TPA isn't syncing to my other PC with Steam. All my other games do.

 

[netizen]

just some no-name gamepad that looks like a super nintendo controller.

Is it xinput or directinput?

TPA needs xinput, iirc

You can try and emulate xinput with x360ce. Here's a how to with links and stuff

 

[Shaneus]

yeah I just looked at the settings and that was on, I do run a few things in oculus rift mode but don't ever recall turning that option in the prefs on.

Happy with how it's running now, will pick up BH and the others next session

 

[LMA]

Could do with a button to look up at the back screen.