Bug Very poor audio quality on PS4 version.

[dingo99]

Norman

Hey guys and gals. Had a phone call from Norman, the audio engineer at FarSight. He needs specific examples of tables with poor audio, and what you are comparing it against. Saying "all of them" does not help. Instead, say "MM on PS3 vs PS4" and what your audio config is, whether it's coming from TV speakers or 5.1 surround. That way Norman can set up an A/B test and hear what you all are.

Unfortunately, the reality is that the problem does exist on "all of them". It's not a matter of specific samples sounding bad. Something is fundamentally wrong with the way the audio is being mixed/processed, resulting in a harsh, high-frequency distortion on virtually any loud sound/music.

For example, TOTAN on PS3 vs. PS4:
When you launch a ball and score the skill shot, the game plays some celebratory music while showing the "snake charmed" animation. On the PS4, that music exhibits severe high-frequency distortion ("scratchy" or "full of static"). With decent speakers and/or medium-high volume level, it's very difficult to listen to. On the PS3, the same music sounds smooth and distortion-free. There are too many examples to list... end-of-ball lamp bonus music, any "s" sounds by the announcer (e.g. "Sinbad"), sword noises from hitting the slingshots, etc. -- they all sound bad.

I recorded the skill shot to demonstrate... Since this forum doesn't allow attachments, I'll put it on Google Drive and hope that I'm allowed to post a link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_P9N1yk6FELQU9IYXA4T1NuZmM&authuser=0 (click the download icon at the top of the page)

The same issue is present on the other free PS4 tables that I've tried, namely Ripley and ToM.

My setup: PS4 & PS3 connected via HDMI to Denon receiver driving 5.1 surround speakers.

 

[Kevlar]

Well done dingo99, I was hoping someone would post a comparison, I don't have a ps3 or 360 anymore so couldn't do it. Best I can say is it all just doesn't sound right, lower quality and distorting. I KNOW it didn't sound like this on my 360. Pretty shocked that they haven't manage to hear it at FS studios yet.

My setup is an Onkyo TX-NR708 DD/DTS THX amp, B&W CM8 and CM centre front speakers plus AE109 rear speakers, BK Monolith sub.....exactly the same setup my xbox 360 used to play through and sound awesome.

 

[shutyertrap]

Unfortunately, the reality is that the problem does exist on "all of them". It's not a matter of specific samples sounding bad. Something is fundamentally wrong with the way the audio is being mixed/processed, resulting in a harsh, high-frequency distortion on virtually any loud sound/music.

This is why they need examples, because FarSight feels they have addressed the problem and aren't sure what the users are hearing. Direct comparisons like what you provided are the proof they need. This kind of post will help them isolate where the issue might be. What Norman described to me, the PS4 does an auto upscale of audio, which causes them problems. Even at full 44 hz, it didn't sound right. He thought he had figured out a work around to fix that. So keep up with the examples. Even if you don't provide a recording, but mention like you did specific moments, that's fine.

 

[dingo99]

Norman

More examples, no problem...

Here's the link to my second set of PS4 vs. PS3 recordings: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_P9N1yk6FELWHNIbWxEeE9VVjQ&authuser=0
Really, the problem is obvious enough that you need only to A/B the files at a decent volume, but I'll describe them anyway...

Ripley's (ps4-ripley.wav & ps3-ripley.wav):
When you put the ball through the loop spinner, the game makes a sort of "pew-pew-pew" sound. On the PS4, the sound effect is layered with harsh static distortion. You can hear the noise constantly on the background music as well. On the PS3, it sounds clean.

Theatre of Magic (ps4-tom.wav & ps3-tom.wav):
When the game starts, the announcer says "Welcome to the Theatre of Magic", and when you score the skill shot, he says "Amazing skill!" On the PS4, the speech is heavily distorted and especially harsh around the words "Theatre", "Magic", and "Amazing skill". On the PS3, it's maybe slightly muffled but otherwise clean.

Black Hole (ps4-blackhole.wav & ps3-blackhole.wav):
This one is so bad I can't imagine anyone not hearing it... When you put the ball into the lower playfield and capture the ball on a flipper, you hear the game playing a continuous whooshing sound effect. On the PS4, there's so much static that it sounds like an extremely dirty/scratched LP record. On the PS3, it's a smooth sound effect without the crackling noises.

 

[Kevlar]

Well done dingo. Out of interest how did you record these?

 

[dingo99]

Thanks Kevlar. I'm using my receiver's Zone 2 functionality to generate a stereo version of the HDMI stream (without any room correction that might appear on the main pre-outs). I ran a cable from the receiver's Zone 2 line-out to my PC's line-in, activated Zone 2 at 0dB volume, and then recorded using the Audacity editing software.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Good job, man. This is exactly what's needed.

 

[Metalzoic]

But why is it needed?

I, and probably nearly everyone else, sure didn't need to directly compare them to be able to tell there is something really wrong. So how is it remotely even possible that they can't hear it when literally all they need to do is actually turn the game on and listen to it themselves? Are they incapable of this for some reason? Have they been looking for the power button on the PS4 for the past 9 months? Have they been playing with the sound off because one of them lost the remote to their home theater system?

And why do they need others to provide examples when they are the ones with the actual code, sound samples for all versions and the tools to compare them right there in the office? Surely they could test and compare it themselves much more efficiently than Dingo can using his method.

 

[Jeff Strong]

But why is it needed?

I, and probably nearly everyone else, sure didn't need to directly compare them to be able to tell there is something really wrong. So how is it remotely even possible that they can't hear it when literally all they need to do is actually turn the game on and listen to it themselves? Are they incapable of this for some reason? Have they been looking for the power button on the PS4 for the past 9 months? Have they been playing with the sound off because one of them lost the remote to their home theater system?

And why do they need others to provide examples when they are the ones with the actual code, sound samples for all versions and the tools to compare them right there in the office? Surely they could test and compare it themselves much more efficiently than Dingo can using his method.

Very good questions.

 

[Tabe]

But why is it needed?

I, and probably nearly everyone else, sure didn't need to directly compare them to be able to tell there is something really wrong. So how is it remotely even possible that they can't hear it when literally all they need to do is actually turn the game on and listen to it themselves? Are they incapable of this for some reason? Have they been looking for the power button on the PS4 for the past 9 months? Have they been playing with the sound off because one of them lost the remote to their home theater system?

And why do they need others to provide examples when they are the ones with the actual code, sound samples for all versions and the tools to compare them right there in the office? Surely they could test and compare it themselves much more efficiently than Dingo can using his method.

Thank you for saying this. I noticed the terrible sound on the PS4 version literally the first time I launched the game. I can't fathom how Farsight could possibly be unable to find the problem - especially since they admitted that they swapped the audio files. How can they now say they can't find or hear the problem?

 

[dmen1974]

I figure this is just another stall technique. This is like the third month of Q3, and still no actual release date for Xbox1. Therefore no season 2, PS4 release date as well as no friend leader board or controller vibration.

 

[smbhax]

Nice examples, dingo. I couldn't hear the difference between the ToTaN skill shots on my little old speakers, but you're right, there's no missing that Black Hole static!

And guys, when a developer says they need specific examples, it's because they need specific examples. Development is never as straightforward as you'd think. Norman probably doesn't even have a PS4 in his office, because playing the game on PS4 is not his job--he just generates the sound files. The programmer whose job it is to hook them up is probably running the game on cheap speakers, because studios don't buy nice speakers for programmers. : P (And that goes double for testers--also, devs and especially testers are usually working in a room with other people, and don't crank up the volume because that would annoy the heck out of everyone else around them, and not everyone is going to bring their own pair of nice headphones in to work.)

 

[PiN WiZ]

dingo99 hit the nail on the head with the audio distortion on the PS4 and he's right, all tables on the PS4 experience the static/distortion that is easily heard in his PS3-PS4 audio comparisons...including the main screen/menu background music. I really hope Norman can resolve this issue before the next patch and set of tables are sent to Sony for review.

 

[starck]

Norman

I think it's really important to note here that while the distortion on the PS4 definitely sounds worse (thanks to the person who uploaded the files!), the PS3 version still remains distorted and crackly, just less noticeable than on the PS4.

Am using PS3 but have similar problems with the sound quality, though not as bad as the PS4 version seems to be described.
If you want to do a quick comparison at work, please compare the PC version sound quality to the console version (both PS3 and PS4) sound quality. You will quickly realize that BOTH the PS3 and PS4 versions sound compressed, and distorted. If you would like specific tables that sound GOOD, I can give you about 1-2: Monster Bash sounds nice. No Good Gophers sounds pretty normal. Compare this to Medieval Madness (terrible, distorted), or Attack from Mars, etc. and the sound quality suffers dramatically.


That being said, I personally don't think it has anything to do with what setup we're using (surround sound receiver, etc.). There seems to be an underling sound quality issue. I've output the PS3 audio through my NAD surround sound receiver, in stereo, faux surround sound, etc. I've also tried outputting the sound through other sources, such as tube monoblocks and a dedicated, stereo, DAC. Results remain the same. Distorted, compressed, sound. I have tested with numerous speakers (including ADS studio monitors - the same model used by Telarc for mastering recordings back in the day), and headphones such as AKG K601, Ortofon IEM's, crappy JBL marshmallows...it doesn't matter what you use to listen as long as it's not your darn TV speakers- nearly all tables sound distorted and compressed. The PS3 version sounds EXACTLY like the iOS version! I am willing to bet that there is some audio bug in the PS4 version, and watch- when they fix that, the PS4 version will have slightly improved, yet still distorted and compressed audio. Just. Like. The. PS3. Has had. FOREVER. The DCS era tables especially shouldn't sound this bad.

Just listen to the PC version for god's sake. Communicate with the team who did the PC version and figure out what's different. End of story. It's absolutely ridiculous that you need to ask us to tell you what tables sound better than others. If you need someone to tell you what sounds compressed and what doesn't...and you work in audio....enough said. So are we just doing the job for you? Can you just pay me part time and I'll literally just work remotely for you. Farsight, get it together.

 

[PiN WiZ]

Norman

I think it's really important to note here that while the distortion on the PS4 definitely sounds worse (thanks to the person who uploaded the files!), the PS3 version still remains distorted and crackly, just less noticeable than on the PS4.

Am using PS3 but have similar problems with the sound quality, though not as bad as the PS4 version seems to be described.
If you want to do a quick comparison at work, please compare the PC version sound quality to the console version (both PS3 and PS4) sound quality. You will quickly realize that BOTH the PS3 and PS4 versions sound compressed, and distorted. If you would like specific tables that sound GOOD, I can give you about 1-2: Monster Bash sounds nice. No Good Gophers sounds pretty normal. Compare this to Medieval Madness (terrible, distorted), or Attack from Mars, etc. and the sound quality suffers dramatically.


That being said, I personally don't think it has anything to do with what setup we're using (surround sound receiver, etc.). There seems to be an underling sound quality issue. I've output the PS3 audio through my NAD surround sound receiver, in stereo, faux surround sound, etc. I've also tried outputting the sound through other sources, such as tube monoblocks and a dedicated, stereo, DAC. Results remain the same. Distorted, compressed, sound. I have tested with numerous speakers (including ADS studio monitors - the same model used by Telarc for mastering recordings back in the day), and headphones such as AKG K601, Ortofon IEM's, crappy JBL marshmallows...it doesn't matter what you use to listen as long as it's not your darn TV speakers- nearly all tables sound distorted and compressed. The PS3 version sounds EXACTLY like the iOS version! I am willing to bet that there is some audio bug in the PS4 version, and watch- when they fix that, the PS4 version will have slightly improved, yet still distorted and compressed audio. Just. Like. The. PS3. Has had. FOREVER. The DCS era tables especially shouldn't sound this bad.

Just listen to the PC version for god's sake. Communicate with the team who did the PC version and figure out what's different. End of story. It's absolutely ridiculous that you need to ask us to tell you what tables sound better than others. If you need someone to tell you what sounds compressed and what doesn't...and you work in audio....enough said. So are we just doing the job for you? Can you just pay me part time and I'll literally just work remotely for you. Farsight, get it together.

Excellent constructive feedback...until the last four sentences of the last paragraph. I understand everyone's frustration with this issue, but attacking the man who is willing to squeeze in some time to re-address the audio issue is far from being constructive.

Everyone, please keep your posts constructive and if you find you can't adhere to this simple request, please refrain from posting in this thread.

 

[starck]

I apologize. I should have been more controlled. I meant to say that, after I have submitted numerous tech support tickets re: the sound issue (with no response!), have posted on the forum here numerous, numerous, times with examples from both sound clips taken directly from the ROM, as well as HD videos found on youtube, I found the post from Farsight asking for examples of tables that sound bad to be....disappointing, to say the least. Have been playing this game for two years now (!) and I love it, but it's incredibly sad to see something go neglected for such a long, long time.

 

[Michael DiFilippo]

Norman

I think it's really important to note here that while the distortion on the PS4 definitely sounds worse (thanks to the person who uploaded the files!), the PS3 version still remains distorted and crackly, just less noticeable than on the PS4.

Am using PS3 but have similar problems with the sound quality, though not as bad as the PS4 version seems to be described.
If you want to do a quick comparison at work, please compare the PC version sound quality to the console version (both PS3 and PS4) sound quality. You will quickly realize that BOTH the PS3 and PS4 versions sound compressed, and distorted. If you would like specific tables that sound GOOD, I can give you about 1-2: Monster Bash sounds nice. No Good Gophers sounds pretty normal. Compare this to Medieval Madness (terrible, distorted), or Attack from Mars, etc. and the sound quality suffers dramatically.


That being said, I personally don't think it has anything to do with what setup we're using (surround sound receiver, etc.). There seems to be an underling sound quality issue. I've output the PS3 audio through my NAD surround sound receiver, in stereo, faux surround sound, etc. I've also tried outputting the sound through other sources, such as tube monoblocks and a dedicated, stereo, DAC. Results remain the same. Distorted, compressed, sound. I have tested with numerous speakers (including ADS studio monitors - the same model used by Telarc for mastering recordings back in the day), and headphones such as AKG K601, Ortofon IEM's, crappy JBL marshmallows...it doesn't matter what you use to listen as long as it's not your darn TV speakers- nearly all tables sound distorted and compressed. The PS3 version sounds EXACTLY like the iOS version! I am willing to bet that there is some audio bug in the PS4 version, and watch- when they fix that, the PS4 version will have slightly improved, yet still distorted and compressed audio. Just. Like. The. PS3. Has had. FOREVER. The DCS era tables especially shouldn't sound this bad.

Just listen to the PC version for god's sake. Communicate with the team who did the PC version and figure out what's different. End of story. It's absolutely ridiculous that you need to ask us to tell you what tables sound better than others. If you need someone to tell you what sounds compressed and what doesn't...and you work in audio....enough said. So are we just doing the job for you? Can you just pay me part time and I'll literally just work remotely for you. Farsight, get it together.

Amen to that. +1

Bottom line, PC gets more attention always and will be better in most cases, always. Ever since the PC release, slightly minor differences are very noticeable on other consoles like the PS4. It's a shame that the PS4 and the new UI weren't released together and planned accordingly.

Standardizing each platform should ultimately be in the back of FS's mind when performing QA testing before they release each submission to whom ever needs to approve it for retail. They're doing their best, improvement's are always a goal and they know it.

BSD for the win!

 

[PiN WiZ]

I think Norman has what he needs now so I'm closing this thread.

Also, when a mod asks members to conduct themselves in a certain manner and follow direction, we expect them to do so.